UPDATE: Reporter Banned Over ‘Doctor Horrible’ Quote
New information has come to light regarding the banning of one of our reporters from the Supernatural convention in Chicago over the weekend. The tweet in question was a quote from the webseries “Doctor Horrible’s Sing Along Blog” and was in response to people assuming she had ulterior motives for sending gift baskets to the cast and crew in honor of the shows ten year anniversary. Out of context, the quote looks mildly malicious, though not threatening. For anyone familiar with the aforementioned webseries, it’s obviously a quote, but without that it could be read as ill-willed. The out of context quote was tweeted by Jensen and Jared’s bodyguard.
When the entire conversation is taken into context the real intent behind the tweet becomes clear. It was made as a sarcastic response to fans who assumed she had an “evol” plan and motivations for sending the entire cast and crew gifts. As this idea is obviously off base, she referenced a well known webseries as a way to laugh off the notion. It was that quote that led to Clif asking for Emily to be removed from the convention and for Creation to permanently ban her from all future cons.
Clif has responded to our email request over clarification over the matter.
I took the action I deemed necessary at the time. I don’t regret what I did and Id do it again. -Clif Kosterman via Email
Creation has not yet clarified if our entire outlet is banned or if the ban against Emily will be lifted now that the context has been made clear. According to a representative from Creation, Jensen and Jared refused to go on stage until Emily was removed from the convention over these tweets. Representatives for the network are looking further into matters at this time and we hope this matter will be resolved soon.
We will update our followers with more information as it becomes available.
Author: Angel Wilson
Angel is the admin of The Geekiary and a geek culture commentator. They earned a BA in Film & Digital Media from UC Santa Cruz. They have contributed to various podcasts and webcasts including An Englishman in San Diego, Free to Be Radio, and Genre TV for All. They’ve also written for Friends of Comic Con and is a 2019 Hugo Award winner for contributing fanfic on AO3. They identify as queer.
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Congratulations on your ban from all Creation conventions forever.
(Since things obviously need clarifying, this response is sarcasm)
-Admin Angel
Even with Clif not understanding it was a Dr. Horrible reference, even without Clif not having the proper context, I find it hard to fathom that anyone would consider that tweet a viable threat to Jared and Jensen’s personal safety.
Still, if we’re as generous to Clif as possible here, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he still messed up. Let’s say the Jared and Jensen are about to go on stage and he receives a tip from someone he trusts that this person is a threat to Jared and Jensen’s safety and has her removed. Let’s say Clif didn’t feel like he had time to research this evidence because he is pressed for time and feels like he has to act right away to ensure Jared and Jensen’s safety.
What disturbs me is the action he took AFTER the convention. Even if we are very generous here assuming he was fooled by someone he trusted and honestly believed J2 were in danger and had to act, he tweeted the screencap of this out of context tweet AFTER the convention was over. At this point Emily had been removed from the convention. The convention was over, and J2 were not at all in danger at this time. Clif surely saw in his mentions people were confused and upset by his actions. So what does Clif do then?
Does he consider, at that point, checking on the context of the tweet to see if the so-called threat he had acted on was in fact a viable threat? No, instead he tweets it as a justification for his actions, and as a result he publicly accused Emily of being a threat to Jared and Jensen and everyone else on the show. I’m disappointed that so far Clif seems to not realize that he was played by a nasty, vindictive fan with grudge and got an innocent person banned.
I hope Clif comes to realize this and issues Emily a public apology he deserves. I’m very disappointed right now in both him and Creation for how this was handled, but most of all I’m disappointed in the Supernatural fandom because tolerance to these haters and bullies have allowed the fandom to become an toxic, unwelcoming place where such appalling acts of defamation could occur.
That sentence should read “I hope Clif comes to realize this and issues Emily a public apology she deserves.”
I’m not sure if you’re old enough to remember this or not but back in the 80’s there was a television show called “My Sister Sam.” The actress who played the lead in that show, Rebecca Schaeffer, was stalked and then ultimately killed on her front doorstep by a crazed fan. I’d argue that the fan who killed Miss Schaeffer succeeded in ruining that show by committing that act.
Mr. Kosterman needs to take any and all threats made towards Jared and Jensen very seriously. You may interpret the phrase “ruin their show” innocuously but he may have interpreted it differently. The man was doing his job and he shouldn’t be faulted for taking every precaution he deems necessary.
Where is Mr. Kosterman when Gen, Daneel and Misha’s lives are being threatened, then?
Exactly, Marvelgirl.
Even if we don’t mention Misha (though we should, especially when have discussions of people wanting to attack him during M&G) and focus sorely on Ackles and Padalecki families – both Danneel and Gen were threatened many times, heck, we’ve seen the threats, some of us saved screenshots, reported those people, everything. And yet no one did anything, those are the delusional people and yet somehow they are still allowed to attend cons?
I feel unsafe in this fandom to a point where I post this comments under a different nickname because I’m afraid of backlash on other sites for simply voicing my opinions.
Exactly, Marvelgirl. Misha, Gen, and Danneel are threatened on a daily basis. They’ve had death threats, harassment, bullying, and “Misha haters” try to get him fired (which will never work, considering how much the cast and crew love him – Jim Beaver even tweeted at one point that “some knuckleheads are trying to get Misha fired. Others are doing good things in the world. Them I like.”), buy photo ops to humiliate him, and have even tried to protest him appearing at cons. Cliff even got involved when people were planning to throw things at Misha at one con back in 2011.
And yet, I’m sure those people – who hide behind sock accounts to threaten the stars and their families – are still allowed at cons. I don’t get it. It’s scary that some cruel, vicious, frankly delusional fans are given so much power to have someone thrown out for a “threat” can that barely be considered as such, even out of context.
I think everyone agrees that the actors need to be protected from threats. I think the issue here is the lack of research both before and after the “threat” for context and, if this had been delivered with no time to research before hand, the lack of apology or resolution to this obvious slander and libel against our reporter and a highly active member of the fandom.
-Admin Angel
Exactly. If Clif believed Jared and Jensen were in danger and believed he had to act quickly to protect them, then that is more understandable. However, his actions he took AFTER the convention are troubling because it indicates he continued to blindly believe the person who mislead him and did not bother to get to the bottom of it after J2 were safe, the convention was over, and people were tweeting to him about it.
If I were Clif, I would be upset that a person I trusted violated that trust and used me as a pawn in order to get back at someone who had nothing to warrant being banned from a convention she had invested considerable time and money to attend. I sincerely hope Clif comes to that realization and does the right thing and apologize.
Jokes and sarcasm are now OUTLAWED!!! Anyone engaging in fun of any kind will be BANNED!!
Disgusted by the lot of them: the show’s PR just encourages the attacks on anyone who isn’t a jdb fan by calling the J2 only 200th episode a “love letter” to fans…if we’re not happy, we must not be fans…we must be a “security threat” and banned. Maybe if we paid for the VIP tickets, Cliff would be laughing with us, instead of slandering us.
I agree with that taking threats seriously is part of the bodyguard’s job but u forget – what sort of proof did he have – was it a single tweet or an email or an entire book. How can u prove a threat – so that means he must have trusted someone who told him this and then took the action. But it is so fishy – why didnt he check and see apart from this 1 person who gave the info – and after the con if he was still unsure why did he go ahead and tweet that he would do it again. So it just doesnt add up –
I’m sure you mean “Jensen and Jared refused to go on stage until Emily was removed from the convention over [that one tweet].”
Except Jensen and Jared were late to the afternoon panel and Emily was escorted out at the breakfast VIP panel.
With all due respect, this isn’t the first time Emily Rose has made remarks of this nature regarding the show. Isn’t she one of the organizers who is behind the boycott of the show by Destiel shippers in an effort to drive the ratings for the show down? How is that not trying to “ruin” the show? If the ratings drop low enough that’s threatening people’s livelihoods.
I don’t understand how on the one hand she’s organizing these wonderful gift baskets for the cast and crew but on the other she’s actively trying to put people out of work. It makes no sense to me. I wholly support the idea of having an all inclusive gift project for the four main cast members but it just seems counterproductive if the people who are behind the gift giving are trying to kill the show off. Miss Rose was at the convention representing your site as a press member, which means that she needs to have at least some objectivity. When she’s making comments about trying to ruin the show and throwing her support behind boycotts that will hurt the show’s ratings that’s not being objective. At the very least she should have had her press pass revoked for engaging in those sorts of activities.
As far as Mr. Kosterman construing this as a security threat is concerned, he was taking all avenues into consideration. One way of ruining a show certainly could be to commit physical harm to one or both of the show’s lead actors. You can’t really fault the man for simply doing his job. The fact that he failed to understand a pop culture reference isn’t really relevant when you take that into consideration. It is somewhat amusing that he didn’t get the reference but he has to take these kinds of things seriously.
As far as I know, Emily has never supported a boycott of the show. She has gone into explicit detail about how ratings work and supports people who chose to not watch a show that they not longer find enjoyable. The first is a simple matter of facts and the second is an opinion that we here at this website share. If you know longer enjoy a show, ANY show, why continue supporting it? And I believe the last show she discussed this information about was Teen Wolf when that fandom specifically asked her how Twitter ratings work. Sharing information about how something functions doesn’t seem malicious to me, personally. In fact, she has been a loud supporter of several corporations who publicly acknowledge the show, such as Olive Garden, and continues to be an active member of fandom despite many of her friends no longer watching the show.
She was not banned over these matters, though. She was banned over a Doctor Horrible quote taken out of context. I agree that without context this seems poor spirited (though a “threat” seems to be a stretch to me personally), but when put into context it is obvious that she was addressing criticism such as the type you are posting here. This criticism, as far as I can tell, is off base.
If you know more about malicious activity that she’s participated in than we do feel free to email us links and/or caps to TheGeekiary@gmail.com. Links are preferred to caps as caps can be doctored, but any context to the accusation that she supported a boycott would be appreciated.
-Admin Angel
It was not a Dr. Horrible quote. The questionable part, “Destroying their world” is not from Dr. Horrible.
Dr. Horrible would know sarcasm when he saw it… so clearly you are NOT Dr. Horrible.
lmao
Yes that was the sarcastic part that is also a play off of Doctor Horrible and a satiric response of the false accusations thrown at her, which is obvious from the full context of the string of tweets.
That movement you are talking about came about as fans taking a stand for what we believed in, and not putting up with the hate any longer. Not trying to shut down the show, but to get our opinions and feelings heard. It wasn’t threatening any harm to anyone. But apparently we are no longer allowed to have thoughts or opinions that differ from others, becuase it becomes grounds for being banned.
Out of context, in the moment, without any time to look further, I can see why he made his decision. I understand his concern was for the boys. But after investigation, if there even was one, there’s no excuse why an apology hasn’t been made yet and this hasn’t been rectified.
And even regardless of her opinions, she was a paying customer of the event, and a human being with rights. Being forced out under false pretenses is wrong.
OK LET ME UNDERSTAND THIS – I COME UP TO YU FOR EXAMPLE AND I SAY LOOK I HAVE A TEXT MESSSAGE SAYING THAT SOMEONE WILL HURT SOMEONE ELSE SO YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE PERSON. IF ANY ONE WAS SO WORRIED ABT J2 SECURITY WHY DIDNT THEY CALL THE POLICE WHO WD LOOK INTO THINGS MORE CLOSELY. WHY ONLY RELY ON 1 PIECE OF EVIDENCE – IF THAT IS ALL IT TAKES DOES THAT MEAN THAT ANY ‘DESTIEL’ FAN LIKE MYSELF SD THEN NOT BOTHER ATTENDING THE CONS AT ALL BECAUSE I MAY HAVE PPLE WHO DONT LIKE ME EITHER. AND CAN FAKE ANY INFO OR TWEET ETC. ? IT SEEMS THAT PPLE DONT LIKE DESTIEL TO BE PART OF THE SPN FAN BASE AND USING EMIILY WAS JUST A WAY OF SHOWING US THAT HOW LITTLE WE ARE VALUED IN SPN THOUGH WE ALWAYS WIN EVERY SINGLE POLL ETC WHEN NECESSARY.
Even if the tweet (taken out of context) was negative, it was not a threat in ANY way, shape, or form and did not warrant and ejection from the convention and a ban from future events.
It does concern me for future events – I mean, if this happened, are any of us safe? Could any of us be thrown out and treated as a criminal for simply having an opinion?
It’s so unfair. I hope they admit they’ve made a mistake. They should know by now, right? I mean Clif as well as Jensen and Jared. They need to know that Emily didn’t mean them any harm. She so deserves a public apology. I still believe legal action should be taken against those who sent the tweet to Clif. But I’m not entirely excusing Clif here. And I still believe calling her a “security risk” over that tweet was too far. I suspect J2 didn’t want to go onstage not because of safety concerns but because they felt uncomfortable and offended.
I don’t think J2 were told the whole context of the thing? They were probably only told someone who had tweeted stuff that made her a threat to them was in the audience or something. I find it pretty hard to believe they straight up refused to go onstage over that one tweet, even taken out of context. o.O Like, I know for sure they’ve gotten worse hate (considering that wasn’t even hate in the first place). Much worse. A 10 minute search through twitter&tumblr would suffice to find much worse than that. I think Clif should’ve checked for sure, and should now apologize to Emily, but I think the ones most at fault now are the Creation people. They should’ve taken her outside so the panel could start and then QUESTION her about what happened, not ban her from ChiCon and every other con ever. Well, of course the ones who are most at fault are the people who maliciously sent the screencap with the tweet to Clif, for sure. And I agree legal action should be taken. If it were me, I’d ban them from Creation events instead of Emily, if I gotta be honest.
is there proof that she’s behind the calls to boycott any spn episodes?
No. There is not.
“I took the action I deemed necessary at the time. I don’t regret what I did and Id do it again. – Clif” – is this after you’ve explained to him that the tweet was taken out of context? if it is, wtf? is he not concerned that it wasn’t j2 but emily who ended up getting hurt. are clif and creation not bothered that they treated an innocent person unfairly?
We emailed him and CW contacts in a joint email less than an hour before this article was posted explaining the context. His response came 5 minutes before we published. The original article stated that he had not yet responded, but we changed it at the last moment.
-Admin Angel
that’s terrible. i feel like he responded with arrogance and lack of remorse that he put an innocent’s reputation on the line. this is not about j2’s safety anymore. this is about his credibility and the safety of fans, and whether spn/cw and creation cares enough to do something about this mess and injustice. clif’s arrogance (when he tweeted emily’s tweet and now with that email response) will get him nowhere and will just irritate people. well, I am irritated.
Very much agreed. I’ve been giving Cliff the benefit of the doubt throughout this whole mess and looked at things in his perspective. But after his cheeky response, all that is out the window. He doesn’t seem to care at all to apologize after everything had been cleared up. :/
The tweet was screen capped before she changed her icon, so we’ll assume it was taken on the 15th? So a fan sat on this tweet until Sunday morning? Or Cliff didn’t do anything about it until today? So this super duper dangerous movie quote threat didn’t warrant some action prior to this weekend? It is a very general comment as well (still not sure how threatening but ok) and she was there since Friday. Did she not encounter other members of the show on Friday and Saturday? If I were concerned about a threat I’d notify the appropriate parties immediately and would hope that it was taken care of before the convention or on Friday for the safety of all involved. Hmmm.
Now, assuming he got this threat this morning (not suspicious at all!) they found time to find out her name (wonder where that came from) and seat location, time to pull her out, but not take about 2 minutes to click and scroll through tweets. She was not allowed to defend herself and no one took the time to check. At any point. I’m also side-eyeing Clif’s decision to proudly release the tweet with Em’s info, still not having gone through the couple of steps it would take to figure out the context.
Creation provides a service and the people who attend are customers. Businesses can’t treat a customer like that. I worked in retail and if I were to acuse a customer of anything I would likely be fired and the customer would probably follow up with a lawsuit. People pay A LOT of money for these things. I’m wondering if they are worth the price if someone who doesn’t like someone else’s ship can catch the ear of TPTB and have them banned. Cliff and Creation made some very big mistakes here, including giving more power to unstable people on the Internet who are probably way too old to be acting like this.
The above comments regarding a mysterious “boycott” ring suspicious as, in my experience, I have only seen a very specific group of individuals state and propagate rumors like this about Emily Rose and for very specific purposes. I’ve followed Emily Rose for a very long time, she’s the one who perked my interest in Supernatural actually, and I have never seen a word of hate from her. I’ve seen plenty against hate, of course, which seems to be one of the main reasons she’s been targeted for well over a year.
But for argument’s sake, let’s say she organized a boycott (which, let’s just state right now, she didn’t). Like, let’s say, previous and well-publicized campaigns by others to get Misha Collins fired (acknowledged by the actors themselves), or to get him banned from conventions permanently, or otherwise threaten him on a regular basis. Or the ongoing hate campaigns against Danneel Ackles and Genevieve Padalecki. Let’s say she organized a group of fans (she didn’t), frustrated by the direction of the show, to collectively not watch or tweet about it anymore. Would you say that “offense” is more heinous than the other campaigns? Enough to slander someone’s good name, ruin their career, or threaten their family? Which, by the way, are not consequences the organizers of these other campaigns have faced in any capacity, but ones Emily Rose faced today, and not for a “boycott,” which would be ridiculous on its own, but because of an 11-day old, out-of-context show quote she tweeted.
“Not watching the show” anymore is any viewer’s prerogative. Banding together with other fans who are also not watching the show anymore, or watching it in limited context, is their prerogative. It is certainly not a punishable offense and I fail to see the relevance of this accusation to this particular situation, except to stir up trouble or cast doubt on this website and its reporter’s professional integrity.
Clif did what any security personnel would and should do in this situation: he responded to what he believed was a viable threat and had to make an instant decision. That’s what you have to do when you have a job like that because hesitation can have major consequences. However, he and Creation made a huge mistake and it is now their job to remedy this as quickly as possible.
My question, and one I see many others asking is: who is the person that gave him this information? The person who screen capped the tweet knew the context and clearly left it out and, as I have seen others point out based on Emily Rose’s icon, did this some time ago and waited with it. This is a person that must be close to Clif and one whose opinion he must trust, if his reaction is any indication. As it would seem to follow, this is also a person with malicious intentions toward other fans and would go so far as to instigate this situation. Who’s to say that this person won’t do this again to others?
I hope this horrible situation is rectified soon. I am not one of the people that have given up on Supernatural, nor am I a “shipper”, which seems to be another issue in regards to this situation, but this all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and a heavy heart. Further official responses to this incident will absolutely influence my decision to attend a Supernatural Convention or to continue to support the show, as is my own choice.
And yet he’s willing to protect that person at the cost of looking unprofessional? And I refuse to believe that J2 wives didn’t share the tweet threats they received – why wasn’t anything ever done with those people?
“Like, let’s say, previous and well-publicized campaigns by others to get Misha Collins fired (acknowledged by the actors themselves), or to get him banned from conventions permanently, or otherwise threaten him on a regular basis.”
Thank you! Why are these cruel people not banned? Also.. like.. I can’t stop laughing that they think they could ever get Misha banned from conventions. He is a HUGE draw and brings a lot of money and guests in to Creation events. His meet and greet auctions usually end up going for a lot more than even J2, and his photo ops and autograph sessions always sell out. He’s done nothing to warrant people trying to get him fired or banned, and it just pisses me off, because he’s such a kind guy. Like.. yeah, he’s irreverent and funny and jokes around, but he’s also a wonderful humanitarian and father.
Creation noticed how popular were cockles photo ops on JiB and now they include them in their own. It’s amazing how people refuse to see that Misha is an asset.
This just proves that they should have her taken somewhere backstage and try to resolve the issue at hand and not her ban her completely and hope that no one would notice. I mean, come on! Checking the whole conversation (which is so short it would take what, 30 seconds to read through it?) would prove that it’s nothing more than a quote! But yet, while both we AND J2’s wives have seen (and saved) proof of tweets send to them and to Misha nothing is being done?
Also, I’m sorry but Clif NEEDS to apology, tweeting the quote and refusing to admit his faults just makes him look unprofessional.
I AM NOT COMPARING WHAT HAPPENED TO EMILY TO OTHER PPLE BUT SHE DIDNT NEED TO BE EMBARASSED LIKE THAT OR HUMILIATED – AND ALSO WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE WHO HAVE TWEETED SIMILAR EVEN WORSE MESSAGES TO MISHA AND DANEEL AND GEN PADALECKI. WERE THEY BANNED FROM ANY CONS? WERE THEY REPORTED – SURELY IN THIS AGE OF TECHNOLOGY THOSE PPLE WHO POSTED STUFF AGAINST MISHA AND J2 WIVES CD HAVE BEEN FOUND OUT BUT NO INSTEAD SOME RANDOM TWEET DONE DAYS BEFORE THE CON – TO SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IN DESTIEL IS BANNED INSTEAD! IF THAT DOESNT SHOW ANYONE WHAT THE AGENDA IS DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY. IF CLIF WAS SO WORRIED ABT THIS TWEET OR INFO SHE OSTENSIBLY HAD WHY WAIT AS HAS BEEN SAID – SHE HAD ALREADY PICKED UP HER PRESS CARD AND HAD BEEN STAYING AT THE HOTEL ISNT IT. WHY WAS SHE ALLOWEED TO GO TO THE CON AT ALL IF THEY WERE WORRIED ABT J2 SAFETY.
Why do ya’ll keep bringing up Misha issues concerning Clif. He has Doesn’t work for Misha. Misha ( he’s tough he’s a Masshole from Western Mass.) Included is the true def “Masshole- is a Guy or Girl from Massachusetts who expresses love by busting your balls. All others bow to them because they’re jealous of their ruleitude. They talk fast, walk fast, drive fast, think fast and no one gets their sense of humor because it is dripping with sarcasm. WE are proud of it, because we know that the rest of the country is too plebeian to understand the complexity of awesome that is us.” But Clif is not Misha’s bodyguard he works for Jared and Jensen. If Misha felt that there were legit threats I’m sure he would address it or hire his own bodyguard if he felt he needed one. A lot of fans disrespect his wife and children as well with always pushing for changes that could eventually cost him his role. to those who don’t pay attention his roles have changed drastically and have gone in a different direction on the show. The shows main focus is the Brothers than Cas and Crowley. What needs to Happen and this goes for all so-called ships or has i prefer let’s keep the fan fic in the land of no matter if its Wincest, J2, Destial, J/D/G/J, or J/D/J, JDM/JA/JP/MC no matter the variation or Ao3,live journal, tmblr.etc..
Well, one irony is that Clif has tweeted in the past about stabbing Misha – in a way which seems far more directly threatening than anything Emily Rose said, and further highlights how innocuous her plan to ‘rule the world’ was.
Wait what? I mean him stabbing Misha or a threat of someone stabbing Misha? O_o
Yes, it was screencapped. Cliff said he’d stab Misha for fun. It was found on a hater’s site and used as proof that everyone hates him which we know is false. Now I consider that a big problem and shows Cliff’s mindset and judgement.
A reporter, who organized the season 10 gifts project (and the writers on twitter/Gomez tweeted pics of their gifts, we know they actually got them), getting banned is now about how people hate Sam? What? It’s about defamation and seeking legal counsel if a retraction isn’t issued by Creation/Cliff and the actual instigators aren’t dealt with in a manner equal to what Emily Rose experienced on Sunday. Right now I’d be too afraid to go to a Creation event because of the toxic atmosphere created by those who are responsible for getting Emily Rose banned.
But you see – it was an old tweet specifically cut out so Clif didn’t see the whole conversation and could not see the context. That’s one of the problems with the whole situation because it definitely looks like someone planned it.
First of all, your comment is violating out policies: https://thegeekiary.com/policies
“Disagreement is fine, but please do not be cruel, hurtful, rude, or downright mean towards other community members. Personal attacks are not allowed. Stay on topic. If you can’t engaged in civil discourse do not engage at all.”
If you can engage civilly without insulting others we can continue engaging in this matter.
All of the facts in my post are outlined and all of my opinions, such Emily’s credibility, are outlined as opinions. Nothing in this post that is speculation or opinion is labeled as fact. That is a direct quote from Clif. I had a direct conversation with the Press manager from Creation who confirmed the previously clearly stated rumors, that we made very clear were based on second hand information and speculation. This has all been made very clear and if any of it confuses you, I’d be happy to help clarify as long as you can do so in a civil manner.
-Admin Angel
Given this example–a tweet out of context which contained NOTHING by name about Supernatural, Jared or Jensen, Creation, or Chicon, it would appear that anything we post on our personal Twitter/Tumblr is fair game to be used as “evidence” in removal from the event. I’ve been to two Creation cons, spending on airfare, hotel, and con tickets in the thousands of dollars. Creation, if you are reading this know one thing: never again. Why would I take on all that financial risk, when anyone can screencap some random thing from my social media and tell Clif Kosterman that it’s “a threat”?
Among the many things that concern me about this incident is we have no idea of the context with which Clif was fed this information. It’s hard to imagine how anyone simply looking at one tweet and take such immediate (despite the tweet being historical) decisive action. It poses no credible discernible threat on it’s own. Who’s show was being referred to?
The irony is not lost on me that ‘destroying our show’ is the often hyperbolic accusation leveled at Emily and others simply for unashamedly holding certain opinions, and that Emily was merely parroting that back in reference to them. It was sarcasm, and in neither instance was ‘destroying’ meant literally. What is truly astonishing is with the whole conversation now available (and would have been at the time with a minute taken to verify it) that this context is still being misinterpreted. I suppose semantics are only relevant to those with the ability to understand them.
People need to take responsibility for their actions and words. I’m sorry but Emily is in the wrong here. This is Clif’s /job/ and you can’t expect him to google the tweet just to make sure it’s not a reference. And even if it WAS from a show, it’s still threatening in a sense so the context as to why it’s tweeted is also taken into account. Clif is a bodyguard, not an internet moderator. I support him in the “Don’t regret the decision and I’ll do it again” because he has to take this seriously. It’s not his fault, it’s his job. It’s not his fault here.
I agree with part of this. It’s his job to protect the actors and out of context that quote looks mean spirited. Where I disagree with you is how it can be interpreted as a threat, especially in context with the rest of the conversation. The lack of action after this incident is a huge problem. This was not a threat and reading the entire conversation proves this. Yet it is still being portrayed as such.
-Admin Angel
But it is not Clif’s job to interpret an entire conversation. It is his job to protect the J2s and help them safely fulfill their obligation to Creation by being on that panel.
Imagine yourself in that situation, in fifteen minutes you’re putting two actors who you guard on a brightly lit stage in a front of a poorly lit room with an audience of several hundred people. You always have the knowledge that any one of these fanatics may have a gun and be willing to shoot the people you are guarding. They may even be willing to shoot people between them and their target.
If Clif receives any warning (even one that proves to be made in error) and he prevented the potential of violence then he made the right call and shouldnt be apologetic. Though I would hope that he investigated the warning further AFTER the convention concludes with the help of the Convention runners (Creation) and CW/SPN resources to figure out what happened.
I do hope you manage to work things out with CW, Creation and SPN but I’m not sure this article is the way to do it.
As I’ve stated, I can understand his initial reaction. But now I do feel it IS his job to correct the mistake that he made. It’s his decision that is keeping my reporter from doing her job. Now that the convention is over and everyone has left the city, it’s time for the situation to be corrected.
How do we know that the tweet is the only thing Clif saw? We cannot determine that she was not a threat without all of the variables.
Yet you have decided she is guilty without all the variables. Interesting.
No, actually, I haven’t. All I’ve done here is provide information to the wrongly attributed Dr. Horrible quote. My question is valid, as is my statement. I’ve not made a single statement on whether I believe she’s guilty or not, only that we cannot determine her guilt with the information presented to us. Your defensive response is very interesting.
Correction: “All I’ve done here up until now is provide information…”
We’ve provided all the information we have, including the full context of the tweets. Based on the full context of the tweets, I’m not sure how it can be interpreted as a threat. Even without context, I don’t see how it’s a threat, but I understand the need to act fast. As far as the “destroying the show” part not being a Doctor Horrible quote, it’s clearly sarcasm and plays off the Doctor Horrible quote that started the tweet. Based on the full context of the conversation you can also see that’s it’s satire of the accusations that have been slung at her. So in short, it’s a Doctor Horrible quote and a heavily sarcastic tweet all in under 140 characters.
If he did see more, then the decision he made was even more poorly made. Out of context, the quote can seem mean spirited, but not much of a threat. In context, it’s very clearly NOT a threat. So if he saw more context, I guess he is really poor at picking up sarcasm? Is that your assertion? I’m trying to have more faith in Clif’s actions than that. But if he did see the full context and still chose to eject her, I’ve lost all faith in his actions whatsoever.
I’m not referring to context. I’m referring to the possibility that there could have been more than just that tweet. We aren’t aware of all the facts, therefore none of us can determine if she was a threat or not or if he acted irrationally or not. I take neither of them at their word. Unfortunately, I doubt full details are coming anytime soon.
I trust Emily and if there is more to her behavior than has been presented I want to know both as one of her editors and as her friend. What she’s told me has been repeated by the rep from Creation and, based on how long I know her, I feel that she is telling the truth. Of course you have no reason to believe ME, but I talked to these people on the phone, I know Emily, and I believe her.
I understand. I am sorry for questioning but it’s hard to just accept what I’m told in this case. You have the benefit of knowing what kind of person Emily is, so thank you for answering. And please don’t get me wrong – I question Clif’s version, as well. I hope at the end of all this, I’ll owe Emily a huge apology.
FTR: I am not an active member of the Supernatural fandom so all of this J2, Distiel is new to me. But having read this and another article on this incident I have to disagree that the poster of that tweet, Emily, was “in the wrong”. She made a joke. She was talking to another person in an exchange when she made it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The fact it was misunderstood isn’t her fault.
From everything written I understand why the bodyguard did what he did, which was remove her from the immediate vicinity of the actors that felt threatened.
However, it’s the aftermath that I find especially disturbing for several reasons:
1) That fans of any show are now wondering if after they purchase a ticket to a Creation event and shell out for the travel and hotel expenses as well that all it will take for them to not get what they paid for is a screen shot of an out of context comment.
2) That it is clear she was talking about something completely differetn when you see the conversation and Creation nor the bodyguard seem interested in the truth of the matter, only covering their asses and digging in their heels.
3) It seems, based on the screen shot of the original tweet that it was taken some time ago but only brought to the attention of someone at Creation moments before the panel, and that smacks of planning on the part of the accuser. Which to me means someone who is a “fan” of the show and attended that event has no problem setting things in motion that hurt someone else and if they are capable of that, *what else would they do to get what they want*? I think that seriously needs to be investigated by Creation and the bodyguard.
“People need to take responsibility for their actions and words. I’m sorry but Emily is in the wrong here.” emily’s actions and words were perfectly ok because she was conversing/joking with friends online and trying to respond to hate using sarcasm and humor (you know, the kind of humor j2 would relate to). it wasn’t her fault that some malicious individual/s took a screen shot of a carefully selected tweet to be deliberately used against her several days after.
To quote you “And even if it WAS from a show, it’s still threatening in a sense so the context as to why it’s tweeted is also taken into account.”
Let’s look at your use of the word context here. You said the context of why it was tweeted is also taken into account. The context is that someone stated she was “ruining their show” meaning the concept of supernatural that they have by liking what she likes and talking about it. She simply meant that she was going to continue doing what she was doing if. She wasn’t going do anything extra.
Now that tweet by itself has NO reference to SPN, J2, ChiCon or anything like that. Randomly looking at that tweet will tell you nothing. It wont even tell you Emily was at the convention.
Someone provided context to Clif. Someone told him there was a threat and the person was at ChiCon. This tweet alone did not cause Clif alarm, but the persons additional information did. They deliberately chose to cut out this part of the conversation to show him. Why didn’t they cut the entire thing?
Look at another example. For days I have been working on a dollhouse and I post my progress on Tumblr. Some people hate it and some loveit. Lets say I tweet “I am so mad I could burn it all.” two weeks ago in reference to my doll house because someone stepped and destroyed my hard work. I go online and I start tweeting about this person destroying my doll house. Then I type the above tweet. Below that my friend types “I will help you burn it”.
Now someone comes along and screencaps “I am so mad I could burn it all.” and my friends response. They take it to my apartment manager/school/official government office and informs them that I have made a threat. There is nothing in that tweet by it self to tell you which “it” I am talking about. There is nothing in that tweet to reference where I am located so that they can find me. All that other information has to come from the person giving the tip to the officials. This persons has clearly seen what the thread of the conversation was and chose the part which best suited the narrative they wanted to deliver.
So Emily is not wrong here. It could happen to anyone.
I don’t understand why Clif couldn’t just click the link to read the whole context…
Oh. There was no link, was there? It was just a screencap. With her old icon. How long was the “informant” sitting on that tweet before declaring it evidence? It was an 11 days old tweet that 2 days into the con screamed “Danger!”?
We are all so screwed if anyone can save a screencap of a Joss Whedon quote and use that as the evidence for banning us from Creation events.
Take a screenshot of a tweet on your phone (Google it if you don’t know how). Now go to one of your messaging services (text, FB messenger, etc) send the picture of your screenshot to a friend. Now call your friend and demand the entire history of that tweet conversation.
Imagine your friend was a bodyguard and your tweet included a potential threat to his or her wards.
Is this what happened to Clif? No clue, but it is entirely possible that Clif wasn’t in a position to get the history or the conversation in a timely enough manner to feel the J2s would be kept safe and simply took measures available to him that would have the least impact on the other convention attendees and panelists.
Sorry, but if you have a phone, all you have to do is enter the the first few words of the tweet into google (I just tried with “”@rob0349 The world’s a mess.”), and in most cases, it will give you a link to the tweet (and the attached conversation).
I just tried it with the above search words and including typing, it took less than 30 seconds.
It’s possible that Clif is not net savvy enough to do this. Which means him evaluating cyber threats is ineffectual. It’s also possible that he DID see the context of the tweets and, for whatever reason, decided to continue. I’m not sure which is worse. Both are pretty awful.
Well, as the bodyguard of actors who work for a show with a pretty good online presence and a fandom that is VERY active online and as someone who uses his twitter account to communicate with fans, he SHOULD be able to do a simple google search, especially where it comes to job relevant tasks like evaluating threats made on a medium he uses himself for job purposes…..but then, yeah, some people don’t use google that much to research stuff and he MIGHT not have thought of that.
Personally, I feel that a lack of tech-savyness can be remedied, but making the deliberate choice not to correctly evaluate a potential threat to the people he’s being paid to protect (and that also includes to some extent not causing negative PR) would have been a lapse in good judgement and quite a bit unprofessional.
I am struggling not to blame Clif entirely for this. It’s very hard, but I’d like to avoid making personal commentary on his professionalism. Since his actions have directly affected my website, I’m clearly quite upset, though, so I’m going to gracefully back away from any commentary on his professionalism at this point and let the actions speak for themselves. I believe they do that well.
Well….we can only go by the information we have so far, but that might not be the WHOLE picture.
There might have been other things aside from an out-of-date and out-of-context tweet that influenced his decision.
On site, he might have been presented with other kinds of “evidence” about the potential threat posed by Ms. Rose, which was not as easy to verify though and which he hasn’t shared yet.
After all, it’s been what?
Twentyfour hours or so?
Other significant details that change the current picture might yet emerge, who knows?
Point is, this is still the fact finding and fact evaluation stage.
The info so far points in a specific direction, but that can still change and it is yet to early for a definite judgement.
I desperately want more information. I want more context for what led to his decision. But so far all I’ve received is a one sentence response from him.
Going by his current actions, I feel he might not be the type who likes explaining himself.
Also, if HE lacks pertinent background information about this (or if he has been fed false information), he might have come to the wrong conclusions and based on those, he MIGHT believe any given combination of the following:
a) that he is completely in the right
b) that Ms. Rose is basically just another fan, despite her press credentials, and that as such, she has no real clout whatsoever and can be safely disregarded
c) that this is just a minor bit of drama that will simply blow over with no harm done if he ignores it (but which might grow into something bigger if he feeds the flames by paying attention to it).
However, since this is something that concerns the media coverage of Supernatural and something that has ALREADY had a somewhat negative impact on the show’s PR, are there other people that might be or have been contacted about this?
I’m guessing Spn has a team of people who handle media and PR matters?
If they’re good at what they do (and I have NO idea, since my involvement with the Supernatural fandom is usually close to non-existent), they might be willing and able to mediate in this case.
I think Mr. Kosterman MIGHT be convinced to be more forthcoming if he can be persuaded that figuring this thing out is in everybodies’ best interest, especially J and J’s.
I have used all of my contacts and have even been given more since then. I know several people who work PR on the show and they’ve always been helpful, but until they contact me back with more than “I’m looking into it” I’m not sure what the result of this will be.
Ok, here is a point you are likely not considering. If you are at convention, you are usually in what amounts to a giant faraday cage (Google the term). While the building you are in MAY have some sort of signal boosting capabilities, my experience as someone who attends a lot of convention in a variety of capacities (I’ve attended various cons as paid staff, volunteer staff, vendor, tournament contestant, press, and as a fan) is that you don’t have reliable data or cell signal on your phone unless you are lucky enough to be standing by a large window that looks out over sky (as opposed to another building). So unless Clif could connect to the internet through on-site intranet (not typically offered to non-convention runners, not even to VIP guests), he was not likely doing much with his phone other than receiving intermittent texts. There is a reason most people working as staff in convention are using hand held radios rather than cell phones.
No matter what Clif’s online googlefu skills are, he is unlikely to have been able to employ those skills while attending a convention.
That’s a good point and might have been a factor.
However, it seems that
a) Mrs. Rose and other participants were doing a lot of live tweeting during the Con, so areas where online access was available probably wasn’t that far off
b) Mr. Kosterman has not deemed it necessary to do even some basic research even after the convention was over and lack of online access stopped being a problem.
A) That could vary based on carrier, so no way to say. The last con I attended, people with AT&T did well and Verizon was spotty with anything but the briefest of messages. There were also huge differences between people using 3G and 4G.
B) My hope is that he’d still be investigating for his own assurance of J2s continued safety. However, I doubt that he’d have much concern about the PR/press access side of things.
This whole event seems like something that should be taken up with the CW/SPN management or their public relations department. And then followed up with Creation to ensure future reporter access.
However, casting public aspersions on the professionalism of Kosterman may be a bad way to get the preferred form of attention to this issue.
Thankfully we’ve been very diligent about not commenting on Clif’s professionalism and have actively asked people to be nice to him via Twitter. We have also said repeatedly that he did what he felt he had to do. Now that it’s over, though, it is his job to fix his mistake. My reporter cannot do her job at the moment because of his decision.
The fact is that there was no potential threat. It’s not an isolated tweet, everyone can see it’s part of a conversation. The quote actually makes it clearly a sarcastic tweet. It doesn’t even mention Supernatural, Jared, Jensen, Creation or ChiCon. That alone should prompt him to look for context in order to avoid punishing an innocent.
I fully support his actions to remove Emily from the convention if he was given this tip and had to act in a timely manner. I support his actions to protect J2. That is his job. He did it well based on the information he received.
Everything after that is the point of contention with those who support Emily. The immediate Creation wide ban and the lack of further investigation. And now once matters have come to light, the continued lack of action. Even if Creation wants to lift the ban because they now understand they cannot.
You know, I don’t blame Clif for any actions he took in the moment. He’s got his job to do.
I don’t blame Creation for not knowing the politics of the fandom. I try to stay out of the way of things like this, but my understanding is that in context, ‘destroy the show’ probably just means ‘support Misha’s continued involvement with SPN’… but Creation probably doesn’t know that, and it’s not necessarily their business to know that.
I do blame Creation for issuing the immediate lifetime ban without even telling Emily what she was supposed to have said or done that made her a threat. This is something that could have been cleared up at the time, and telling her what she’s accused of seems to be basic courtesy if nothing else. And I’ll definitely blame them if they don’t lift the ban, given an explanation.
I’m kind of new to the fandom. I’ve never been to a Creation con. How they handle this is definitely going to be a factor in whether that statement ever changes.
The lifetime ban from creation does seem overly harsh and reactionary.
I stand by Cliff. His job is to nullify the threat, immediately. He is a bodyguard to Jensen and Jared, their safety is his responsibility. He has to take these things seriously, it is not his job to worry about the fans. Honestly, I am not trying to add to the fire, all I want from Cliff is for him to protect the guys. I don’t want him second guessing his decisions. Bodyguards have to assess the risk and act almost instantly to any threat.
The con organizers, they can after the fact take the time to figure things out and then act in a fair manner. That is not Cliff’s job. I don’t want him to have his hands tied by wondering if he is going to hurt someone’s feelings.
I feel badly for Emily if everything above is true. This sounds like a despicable act and very personal. Mean spirited fans attacking other fans in this way costs all of the fandom.
Cliff doesn’t owe anyone an apology unless he was rough or rude to Emily and I haven’t heard that complaint. Jensen and Jared certainly aren’t at fault because the fandoms got screws loose.
These are of course my opinions and hold no real weight. I just think everyone should calm down.
( He is not responsible for the actors wives, he is responsible for Jensen and Jared. If the studio doesn’t take threats against the actors family members seriously that is an entirely different matter.)
You have a valid opinion. I do feel like he needs to address this after the fact, though, and that’s pretty much the major point here that I disagree with. In the heat of the moment I don’t fault him for acting quickly, but now that there’s been time to sort through this somebody somewhere needs to take responsibility for the misunderstanding. As our reporter can no longer report for us from conventions until he clears her (from our understanding, anyway, from the conversations with various people from Creation) he needs to, at the very least, advise them that he was mistaken about her status as a threat.
Yes, a bodyguard’s duty is to keep the people he/she protects safe.
Part of the job though is adequate and competent threat assessment.
Plus, if you’re bodyguard to an actor or a celebrity, it is also part of your job to be sensitive towards possible PR issues that might arise from your actions.
As somebody else on this thread mentioned, this was NOT a situation where they had to make a snap decision like that.
Checking the background and context of a tweet would have taken what?
Two minutes max?
And did they have those two minutes?
Most definitely.
Given that there is a TON of fandom tweets out there that might be interpreted as threatening if taken out of context, a COMPETENT threat assessment would have meant taking those two minutes to follow up on the tip they’d been given.
So…..either Mr. Kosterman here is not terribly good at his job, or there’s more going on here than meets the eye, I guess.
(Mind, not saying he’s incompetent or anything, but he COULD have done better and handled the situation in a more appropriate and professional fashion. If I had to grade his performance, he’d get a shaky D at best, when in his position and with experience, he should have been able to manage at least a B without difficulty.)
Too bad it wasn’t so “immediate”: somebody sat on that tweet for several days prior to the con. For some reason.
“CAUSE & CONSEQUENCES, if this person thinks the world is turning arround her then she learned her lesson. Reality bites.” – this confuses me. emily doesn’t think the world revolves around her. that’s a dr horrible quote. so, you see, understanding tone and context is important. clif should have investigated after the con was over if he had no way to do that during.
I read the conversation in a very neutral way. I am no wincest or destiel fan, just a fan of the show supernatural, that’s why I am staying neutral.
SO reading the all conservation, I have to admit I don’t like the sentence ” I”ll settle for destroying their show “. It is offending and understand why Cliff had to react. There are some extreme fans in the fandom, some FANS did extreme things to actors or singers in the past. I am not saying Emily is like this, I am saying why Cliff had to act.
Now Emily seems very involved in the fandom since she sent gifts to the cast and crew, created, I heard, a twitter account against haters. Don’t shout at me for what I am going to write but these could be the actions of extremes fans. And when an extreme fan is not happy about what he thinks should be in his show, he can turn to hate. Again, I am not saying that’s the way Emily is, I am saying that is Cliff’s job to protect the boys ans reacts fast. He is not the the guy who follow them everywhere around. He and creation don’t have to apology. They did their job.
An other thing is you wrote your reporter was banned, I think it’s the fan who was banned. It has nothing to do with being a reporter. Emily is a fan, not very objective, she went there, as she said so as a fan, and then added the reports. Well a reporter can’t these kind of things on her twitter account.
I totally understand the banning over this tweet, I think it is going too far to banish from all cons (even if I supposed she won’t think like going back to one anytime soon), but can I suggest that privately, Emily write a letter to Cliff and J2, apology for writing this tweet and explain the context. She should wait a few days to digest it and do it calmly with a cold head. This has to been done privatly and not in public.
As for your site, you are throwing a witch hunt and that is wrong. Saying some fans did it to hurt Emily, maybe it’s the truth, I don’t know, but you can’t prove it and right now, an other war is starting. Some fans are being bullied, Cliff is bullied into an apologie he shouldn’t have to make. I know your friend is hurting, but you can’t be objective since she is your friend.
Once more I tried to be very neutral here because I am not into any ship, so I watched it with open eyes. I did not accuse Emily of being an extreme fan, but just showing what it looks like from the outside. And really from the outside, the supernatural seems a very ugly place to be !!!
Just the fact that you think, creating an Anti-Bullying website is the action of an extreme fan, tells me you are not being neutral about it. So if anyone raises voice against bullying, they are extreme? Did Emily mention Supernatural as the show she is destroying. Did Emily say, Jensen and Jared’s show? In context “their show” means the show Emily haters were hounding her about. “Their Show” as in the “haters” show.
The point here is not if Cliff was justified in what he did. Or if Jensen and Jared were justified in not going on the stage. The point is what is being done after everything is put in perspective. Hindsight should make it amply clear, Cliff was not only wrong, but Creation and J2 are wrong as well.
Daneel/Gen/Misha everyone has been tagged with incredible hate. I did not see J2 standing up against that hate at all. Neither did Cliff. It is a well known fact that Cliff is friends with parts of the fandom who are very vicious against every person Jensen and Jared have in their live, including their kids. DIrect death threats for showing up to PCA.
People spewed hate against Daneel for attending PCA with Jensen. In their twisted mind, this forced Jared to go solo. All of this is swept under the rugs, no one ever takes a stand against threats to their loved ones and innocent children, but they have to act on this and even after explanation, instead of agreeing it was a misunderstanding, say, they will do it again.
In all this, what is clear to me after this incident is, the part of the fandom, which is full of hatred, has taken it their mission to punish everyone who do not ship what they ship (Wincest or J2). That to me will prove to be far more dangerous for the boys, than what Emily has done. Their hatred has ruined so much of this fandom and that will never get addressed. In fact it gets rewarded.
What this CON and few other acts by these haters have proven is, TPTB, Creation, Writers, Cliff and J2. They will punish sarcasm and reward ugly vile behavior.
I didn’t want to upset you Jensha, I truly think Emily did good creating this site, I just meant she is very involved. This is the kind of things an extreme fan could do but it doesn’t mean she is. And by the way, in the conversation, yes, spn is mentioned.
We all should take a step back because it’s horrible. Wincest fans accused destiels fans to bully them, destiels fans accuse wincest fans of the same. Yesterday a fan has been banned from a con, so her side accuse the other, maybe it’s true, maybe not, we don’t know. Next con, it might go the other way around.
It has to stop. These ships are going way too far, specially when the show is not about about ship and should stay in fan fictions.
Emily made a little mistake, she has been violently punished for that. Too much, I think, but that’s just my opinion and it means nothing. So she can try to take care of it privately with Cliff and Creation or she can go to justice but what is going on now is wrong, because hundred of fans are truly bulling others and Cliff.
We also have to remember that twitter is public and when it is written there, everyone can see it. So we must be careful, it is never a private conversation.
I don’t understand how can someone being very involved in an anti-bullying campaign or sending gifts to cast and crew be labeled an extreme fan.
I think we only need to look at the murder of pop star Selena to find the answer to this query.
So now talking and joking around with friends is a mistake? The tweet was not tagged in any way, nor was it forwarded to anyone from spn cast/crew.
Also you know what? I was casual fan that has been bullied (yes!) by the wincest/j2 fans/tinhatters BECAUSE I don’t like incest, nor did I find J2 the greatest, most awesomest etc. AntiBullying was created for people like me, for people who wanted to be a part of this fandom but came across horrible people with the opinion that we’re either with them or they’ll destroy us.
So once again, tell me how managing a community that is supposed to a safe heaven for newbies and people in position is the act of an extreme fan and not a genuinely caring person? Hm?
I am going to step back now.
I tried to be civil here but all I receive is hate.
Bye.
Dear Audrey,
I have read your comment as well as the replies you have gotten to it.
At NO point of the conversation has anybody made negative remarks about you personally, called you names or otherwise attacked you.
What people in this thread HAVE done is pointed out the flaws in your argument, added some counter-arguments and brought up additional points that need to be considered.
Which is EXACTLY how things are supposed to in a discussion: argument and counter-argument, all without getting personal.
I must say, I am rather supprised that you are labeling this as “receiving hate”, because people respectfully disagreeing with you certainly DOESN’T qualify as such.
If you point out the hate, I will gladly take care of it as any sort of hate is not welcome on this site. At this moment I’m having trouble finding it.
For what it’s worth, I agree with you.
“So she can try to take care of it privately with Cliff and Creation or she can go to justice but what is going on now is wrong, because hundred of fans are truly bulling others and Cliff.
We also have to remember that twitter is public and when it is written there, everyone can see it. So we must be careful, it is never a private conversation.”
– this is another example of people supporting clif and expressing concern about him. well and good. but you fail to see that clif himself wronged emily by tweeting that out-of-context tweet to his thousands of followers without investigating first.
clif accused her publicly, and now you want her to settle things privately? she deserves a public apology.
Umm, while it may be embarrassing to be pulled aside and then be unable to return to your seat that did not make the action public. This event only became public when Emily and TheGeekiary started publishing information about it.
A brief note from Emily to followers apologizing that she couldn’t tweet further about the convention because she’d been asked to leave due to a security mix up and a promise from her and TheGeekiary for more information once things were cleared up would have been a more professional way to handle things. (I realize this would have been challenging.)
However, as much as I’d love to hear that things are worked out for the Geekiary and Emily, I so think that posts decrying a bodyguard’s lack of pop culture knowledge and unwillingness to research threats and done in such a way as to illicit harassment if the bodyguard is VERY unlikely to yield desired results: Emily getting unbanned.
We were very publicly promoting this event and people were counting on us. We needed to explain what happened. Yes, Emily’s tweets were emotionally made in the heat of the moment, but she’s only human. Is have been upset to. As a blog we’ve been very clear about posting facts. People want to know. We are providing information.
We keep making statements about Slander. But there are people laying claim that they “know Clif if friends with people who want to harm the wives and children”. Do we really know this or are people assuming? Yes the hate against the wives and children have been commented on by the guys at the last few cons asking for it to stop.
Also it is wrong if people threaten Misha ( he’s tough he’s a Masshole from Western Mass.) Included is the true def “Masshole- is a Guy or Girl from Massachusetts who expresses love by busting your balls. All others bow to them because they’re jealous of their ruleitude. They talk fast, walk fast, drive fast, think fast and no one gets their sense of humor because it is dripping with sarcasm. WE are proud of it, because we know that the rest of the country is too plebeian to understand the complexity of awesome that is us.” But Clif is not Misha’s bodyguard he works for Jared and Jensen. So you can’t make him a target either. As a grown up adult lesbian with 1 daughter and 2 granddaughter and several God-children attacking and making threats to anyone’s children is wrong.
I feel bad that something that is 1/2 a NPH Quote was taking out of context, and that Emily was removed as a result. But as you say she was embarrassed, she took to Twitter and stated she was removed for being a M/M slash fan and putting bunnies in gift baskets. After Clif was tormented with request for a reponse by several people on his page
{This is separate from Emily’s issue:
I personally don’t care what faction of fanficton gets who off, it’s fiction not real. But if we as fans of a series some who have been here since 9-13-05 and some who were still playing with Barbie and GI Joe back then really care about are show and the actors be it Jared ,Jensen, Misha, or Mark and continue to bombard questions and content on the fiction that portrays the Actor’s themselves or their character in some very graphic M/M, parent/child, sibling/sibling beastality, Human/ and another species, underage sex. Although some of it is sappy romance as well. To a convention that we know the Actor’s whom we admire bring their minor children to. We know they are not comfortable with and we also know that they don’t want to offend anyone. So they either play it off or sometimes just get pissed off.
But to start saying Clif is Anti-L.G.B.T. is unfair we dont know that personally he also supports the NOH8 Campagin. also the personal attacks on “who you know he is friends with and what was stated can also be implied as slander.”
At this time the people who sent Clif the tweet are not yet known. People are speculating off of who has harassed her in the past and the reasons for that harassment. I think people are operating off of strong hunches at this point and we might honestly never know. If we do, I’m not sure it’s something we’d talk about here. It depends on the context of who it is.
This is the first time I’ve heard of Clif getting tweets accusing him of being a homophobe. We’ve tried very hard to encourage our followers to be polite when addressing people on Twitter. Clearly not everyone is.
-Admin Angel
FYI @bodyguard for jandj only follows like 35 or so people now he has over 81k followers it looks as if most are show related or family. I could be wrong since I do not know him personally. Go to his page and read the Hate that was spewed before he released the text . his tweet was along the lines of biggest con ever.
the name Jensha keeps repeating that Clif is friends with the people who want to harm the wives and children of j2. this person also states that he is Personal friends with whomever sent the tweet. I know Emily is your Employee but if you are a legit publication wouldn’t you police the anti cliff comments with same care that you police the ones that question Emily’s motives. I think that Clif did his job but I think the constant bulling of by your followers and the nasty remarks may not help Emily they may do more damage than good. She seems like a nice person and if there is a problem between her and another fan they should try to settle it because from her original tweets it seems she knows who did it. she said someone threatened her children did she file a Police Report?
We aren’t going to comment on the incident that happened with her children as we don’t even know the exact details of it. That was done and swiftly dealt with by her. I didn’t even personally know about it until she went on complete lock down on all of her social media outlets and removed the doxxing and threatening comments that happened. All I will say is that it did involve her kids, but any other details I know, I don’t feel comfortable sharing. There’s a lot she didn’t even share with me because it was extremely personal.
The comments about who delivered the messages to Clif are pure speculation and we’ve always commented as such here. We’ve been responding to that speculation, but right now I haven’t seen any attacks against him. If there were attacks against him (calling him a homophobe or something) we would definitely moderate it. I’ve been responding to people questioning his professionalism in the most diplomatic way possible and trying to catch every mention of it. If I missed a personal attack against Clif, please point me to it. This thread has 124 comments, I just pulled a double shift at my day job and have been trying to keep up with things on my breaks the best I can.
Also, right now we have not banned anyone who has commented here. The only rule breaker was given a warning and it was for name calling, which is against our rules. Name calling is against the rules site wide, no matter who it is aimed at. What isn’t against the rules is civil discourse and discussion. We’ve let people, even people who disagreed with us (like you) continue to discuss things because you haven’t resorted to breaking our site rules.
That’s pretty much what it comes down to. Site rules. Here they are: https://thegeekiary.com/policies
Only one person in this comments section has broken those rules and they were given a warning. Speculation is not against the rules, but, as I have mentioned, I have been diligent pointing out that it is pure speculation and we do not have the facts to back it up. Likewise, people have speculated and doubted Emily’s credibility, which is also not against the rules. Personal attacks against either of them would be.
I hope I cleared that up a bit. Because I’m actually amazed at how civil most of this thread has been.
Anyway, I’m going to catch up on comments now, so if I DID miss a personal attack, I’ll be getting to it shortly.
-Admin Angel
I completely agree that the identity of the people who passed that “tip” to Clif needs to be confirmed and that any and all statements regarding their motif and their track record is more or less speculation until then.
However, while it would be a good idea to state it a bit more clearly that at this point, any statement concerning the tipsters is hypothetical in nature, I don’t see how the fact that people are speculating about this is something that should be considered “anti cliff” and in need of policing?
Also, could you please explain why you believe that if fan A recruits bystander X into helping harass fan B, it is the sole responsibility of fan B to find a solution to the conflict?
Sorry, but if bystander X lets him/herself become an accessory to harassment because they relied solely on the information provided by fan A and failed to do some reconnaissance of their own, then YES, bystander X DOES have a moral obligation to help clear up the situation.
JENSHA 5:03 pm October 27, 2014
It is a well known fact that Cliff is friends with parts of the fandom who are very vicious against every person Jensen and Jared have in their live, including their kids.
JENSHA 6:28 pm October 27, 2014
For Cliff to act on such proof makes him very unprofessional.
J2 should be more worried about the friends Cliff keeps and their hatred of Daneel/Gen/Kids.
Even Jensen asked if he could dominate the world. Looks like he is a huge security threat now.
Here are 2 of them and could also be considered slanderous since it’s his Job to protect the boys and there family. at con’s you always see him with Gen and Tom. He seems to genuinely care for those families and that is hurtful and mean . He hasn’t said that Emily was a bad person or someone who likes destial or anything like that he stated that the quote about Destroying their show was a secutity risk. you never know it could’ve been resolved but stating on Twitter you got kicked out cause of Destial was false saying someone made a fake tweet was false it looks like there are mistakes on both sides .
Unfortunately, those comments are based on observation. If it was saying that he was doing so intentionally or calling him names, that would be grounds for a warning or a ban. But Clif has attended parties and events with people who have posted hatred and extreme negativity towards their wives. I’m not going to be naming names, but this is well known as the original poster stated. I honestly don’t think he’s aware of what these people post on their Twitter feeds. But again, that’s just speculation. I do not see personal attacks in either of those comments, but just observations of who he’s hung out with and what those people have stated on Twitter in reference to their wives.
if there is that kind of proof how come noone has reported it to the proper people or clif himself ya’ll know his Twitter. What about the original remark that your reporter was kicked out for liking destial and that the tweet in ? was fake? just pointing out the fact that some of your followers may have made the situation worse. hopefully all the fans won’t be punnished by the acts of some. if you havent noticed Misha hasn’t posted anything since b4 the incident.
The livetweeting during 10×04 was almost non-existent. The general silence on twitter, minus the most inane tweets, by CW SPN employees suggests that there was a memo.
They are well aware at the CW because of the bts pr contacts in use by The Geekiary (as they have tweeted, Admin Angel has also commented here as well). Jim Michaels confirmed on his twitter that he had no idea who @theVSgirl was (someone claiming be doing PR at Chicon as an employee of the CW and was tweeting how an apology was issued, it’s all good, but when asked for proof of identity, they privated their account).
When fans asked a tumblr user who has connections to Buzzfeed if they could utilize them to assist @exorcisingemily, they said no, unless they are given permission to do so by @exorcisingemily (as in, “here are the email addresses to write to” kind of permission).
“I read the conversation in a very neutral way. I am no wincest or destiel fan, just a fan of the show supernatural, that’s why I am staying neutral.”
This is a nice anecdote but 1) there is no way to prove this and 2) there are people who don’t even watch the show who have “sided” with Emily. So your anecdote, which you are unable to verify, has been cancelled out by others.
“SO reading the all conservation, I have to admit I don’t like the sentence ” I”ll settle for destroying their show “. It is offending and understand why Cliff had to react. There are some extreme fans in the fandom, some FANS did extreme things to actors or singers in the past. I am not saying Emily is like this, I am saying why Cliff had to act.”
We are not disagreeing with this. However, the lack of research afterward to clear our reporters name, and the suspicious nature of the screen capture are what bothers a lot of people. She is banned for life for an out of context tweet that was in no way a threat.
“Now Emily seems very involved in the fandom since she sent gifts to the cast and crew, created, I heard, a twitter account against haters. Don’t shout at me for what I am going to write but these could be the actions of extremes fans. And when an extreme fan is not happy about what he thinks should be in his show, he can turn to hate. Again, I am not saying that’s the way Emily is, I am saying that is Cliff’s job to protect the boys ans reacts fast. He is not the the guy who follow them everywhere around. He and creation don’t have to apology. They did their job.”
From my understanding, they had no idea she was the person behind all these things that they have previously expressed appreciation for publicly (at least this is what was implied by my conversation with the Creation representative, but she may have just been speaking on behalf of Creation). If they didn’t like the gifts and didn’t appreciate the anti bullying campaign, I don’t think they would have praised both. She is very involved. That’s why she’s a TV reporter, after all. It’s why she attends conventions on our behalf and why we enjoy her contributions to this site.
“An other thing is you wrote your reporter was banned, I think it’s the fan who was banned. It has nothing to do with being a reporter. Emily is a fan, not very objective, she went there, as she said so as a fan, and then added the reports. Well a reporter can’t these kind of things on her twitter account.”
No, you’re mistaken. She’s our reporter. She even had a press badge to this event and has press access to other events as well. You can verify that she’s a reporter based on the dropdown menu at the top of this page. As far as what a reporter is allowed to tweet, reporters are people too and while they have more eyes on them than an average joe, they are still people who are free to express themselves. If she was expressing herself in a way that we didn’t condone we would politely ask her to cease contributing to this site or change her behavior. At this time, we have done neither because none of her tweets have been remotely threatening or against the ethos of this site. Snarky? Sure. But her snark is part of why we love her.
“I totally understand the banning over this tweet, I think it is going too far to banish from all cons (even if I supposed she won’t think like going back to one anytime soon), but can I suggest that privately, Emily write a letter to Cliff and J2, apology for writing this tweet and explain the context. She should wait a few days to digest it and do it calmly with a cold head. This has to been done privatly and not in public.”
We’ve been in contact with Clif. We posted his response here. We’d love to hear more from people involved. People want answers.
“As for your site, you are throwing a witch hunt and that is wrong. Saying some fans did it to hurt Emily, maybe it’s the truth, I don’t know, but you can’t prove it and right now, an other war is starting. Some fans are being bullied, Cliff is bullied into an apologie he shouldn’t have to make. I know your friend is hurting, but you can’t be objective since she is your friend.”
We have stated numerous times to not send hate. We have clearly defined what is fact and what is rumor. Some of the rumors have been confirmed, which we have noted in our updates. We are not starting a which hunt. We want answers for why our reporter has been banned from all Creation conventions. We have not received an answer as of this writing. All we’ve been told was that that tweet was given to Clif and that the actors refused to go on stage until she was removed from the premises. These are facts we have been told by two separate parties (one fan, one official).
“Once more I tried to be very neutral here because I am not into any ship, so I watched it with open eyes. I did not accuse Emily of being an extreme fan, but just showing what it looks like from the outside. And really from the outside, the supernatural seems a very ugly place to be !!!”
Supernatural fandom can be very ugly as this entire incident highlights. Thank you for remaining civil even though you disagree with us. If more people engaged in this manner, perhaps incidents like this wouldn’t happen in the first place. Civil discourse did not happen here. This entire incident should never have happened.
-Admin Angel
“I’ll settle for destroying their show.” – this is what emily’s haters were saying she was doing. it wasn’t emily saying she wants to destroy the show. it saddens and worries me that some people still misread the tweet even with the contextual tweets included. i don’t understand. is this a language barrier or what? i suggest rereading the tweets carefully instead of hastily jumping to defend clif. many people have already excused him ‘because it’s his job, because j2, etc.’
now, j2 is safe. can people worried about j2 and clif start caring about the fact that emily is innocent and is the victim here? she doesn’t owe j2 an apology. i don’t know how you came to that conclusion. it wasn’t her fault that malicious individual/s stalked her timeline and chose a tweet (a joke with friends) and took it out of context to be deliberately used against her several days after.
also, creation and clif doing their jobs doesn’t mean they don’t owe emily an apology because they failed to investigate further after the con when they have already ensured j2’s safety.
the longer people responsible and involved keep silent about this, the longer they’re subjecting an innocent person to injustice.
(i don’t even know emily personally besides reading her tweets from time to time. i haven’t participated in the fandom before. but i just feel so strongly about this, and i won’t be able to let this go until people responsible start showing that they are considerate human beings.)
I can believe Clif reacted initially out of concern for his clients’ safety and erred on the side of extreme caution. I’ll even give Creation the benefit of believing they also initially reacted out of concern for J and J in removing a perceived threat from the panel while they investigated further.
What I can’t understand – and why I’m frankly disgusted by both Clif’s and Creation’s behavior – is that it appears they didn’t investigate further. They banned Emily not only from that panel, but from the con and all future cons, with no additional investigation. And when they removed her and banned her, they didn’t even explain specifically why she was being banned or why it was a lifetime ban, other than possibly referring to a tweet. A tweet that turns out to be two weeks old and taken out of context.
They may have believed that they were behaving appropriately in the moment. But they overreacted, and their actions could be harmful to the reputation of an innocent person.
At this point, it’s incumbent upon Clif and Creation to investigate further, identify the source who provided Emily’s two-week-old, out-of-context tweet to them (or at least explain if it came from a trusted source and explain why that source is trusted and whether that source will still be trusted going forth), lift the ban on Emily, and issue a formal apology. Financial recompense for her to cover her lost travel funds, etc., would be a decent gesture on their part, as well. As will announcing any actions to be made towards the source who instigated this mess.
I’m stunned and a little scared that someone could be banned for life from Creation’s cons based on so little evidence and so little investigation. I’m also sad for the SPN fandom, because ultimately none of this reflects well on the fandom, and most of the fans don’t deserve another black eye.
#IStandWithEmily
*applause*
Very well put.
Ensuring the safety of J2 is a good goal to have (especially if it’s your actual job, but, as they say, “With great power comes great responsibility” and Mr. Kosterman and Creation certainly are using theirs in a rather….inelegant way right now.
A bull in a china shop comes to mind.
Very well put. As others have pointed out, anyone could have figured out, it was on old tweet, which seemingly was used only before the J2 panel started. Only someone who is int he good books of Cliff and is friends with Cliff could have had such influence for him to take such unwanted and drastic action. If it was any random fan, who tweeted or screen shot it to Cliff, I am sure, he wouldn’t have done anything.
It is speculation on my part, but if this person (it makes me sick calling them a person) who sent this tweet to Cliff, used their friendship with Cliff, to maliciously disgrace Emily only because Emily does not like that “they” like. For Cliff to act on such proof makes him very unprofessional.
J2 should be more worried about the friends Cliff keeps and their hatred of Daneel/Gen/Kids.
Even Jensen asked if he could dominate the world. Looks like he is a huge security threat now.
Everyone involved in this, including J2, should be ashamed of themselves for not setting it right “after all the facts” have come to light.
It is almost laughable that people here are saying Emily supported boycott which threatens the livelihood of multi-millionaires.
So Emily has the power to make Jensen and Jared jobless and they would need to be worried about their livelihood.
Guess why she didn’t have power to stop her own ouster from a CON for life, affecting her livelihood.
It is really sad that people forgive celebrities for anything because of how good they look and disrespect fellow fans for not agreeing with them.
One thing is sure, the person who sent this tweet to Cliff, Karma will definitely get them back and with interest.
The thing that scares me is that, clearly, this person is trusted by him and, therefore, might have access to information on the cast’s families and activities. If they’d go so far as to make a false report to incriminate someone, then what else would they do?
The fact he’s protecting this person over his own clients is a massive, massive mistake, nevermind the legal tangle he’s landed himself in with incriminating Emily.
I really hope for the karma.
Also can’t wait for the official statement and really – at this point I just want them to find the person responsible for this and punish them properly. :\
I suspect karma is already happening, and the only official statement we’re going to get, I’ll wager, will be from Emily herself. It really ain’t our business.
The screencap Clif tweeted only shows that two weeks ago someone was tweeting a friend about ruling the world and “destroying” a show. It could have been any of us. The tweet doesn’t mention SPN, Jared/Jenson, Creation or Chicon. It wasn’t tweeted to Jared/Jenson, Creation or Chicon. The only way you can tell the tweet is about Supernatural is by following the conversation it is part of, and from that conversation it is extremely clear that the tone of the tweet is humorous (even if you don’t know the quote I have never heard anyone talk about ruling the world and EVOL WAYS in serious terms). The only way to know the person who tweeted was at the con was by reading their recent tweets.
Research that provided enough information to allow Security to locate Emily and link her to the tweet should also have shown that she was not a security threat. Expelling a member of the press from a convention is a serious step and I am surprised that Creation did so without at least verifying the information they were provided.
To me the whole thing seems badly handled.
Dr. Horrible does not say anything about destroying their show. The rule the world part is from Horrible, the rest is not.
In my opinion, the quote on her tweet that is about ruling the world is indication of the sarcasm on it. Who would take that seriously?
I think it was the “destroying their show” part, honestly.
… which, in context of the other tweets, is clearly sarcasm.
I’m trying to say that I didn’t take the “destroying their show” part seriously because of the “ruling the world” part that precedes it.
I got that after I read it again, Marvel Girl. Apologies for hitting reply too quickly. 🙂
if you take it out of context but as human beings everything needs to have context to be taken one way or another. The way it was said was that people was saying that she was ruining their show.(i.e. the people bullying her)Ironic that that is what got her kicked out
This does look like an overreaction, if that is all the information they had to go on. I personally think that she should have been questioned and given a chance to put things in contest. And if there wasn’t time to do that before the morning panel, surely there was by the second one.
BUT just because this is all that Clif posted doesn’t mean that there wasn’t other things at play. As several of you have mentioned there have been death threats made. Towards them and their families. And as Audrey said above things such as gifts and anti-bullying campaign could be taken in a dark light. Because others have used innocuous, innocent things to gain access to targets. Or unbalanced people have considered themselves spurned because their nice actions didn’t give them the access or the results they desired. I don’t want to imply that Emily should be lumped in with those people. But I don’t know her. Clif doesn’t know her. Most of you probably don’t actually know her. We all are going on EXTREMELY limited information and making huge assumptions based on it. So if he had even a smidgeon of additional information, he may have decided better safe than sorry. Though I’ll admit from the outside it does seem to have been handled very badly. And hopefully Emily will get her name cleared and a nice gift from Creation (like free Gold Panel tickets) wouldn’t be out of line. Along with a apology from Clif.
But I’m sorry I don’t think there is any conspiracy or agenda on Clif or any of the powers that be against Destielers (maybe by fringe fans but not by people on the show). I don’t think there has ever been any intention of making it or Wincest canon, but I don’t think they care how many pictures you manip or stories you write. I think they fully approve as long as the ratings stay up and they aren’t get sent hate mail or death threats because it doesn’t happen.(Which I’m sure is a miniscule part of the fandom – and I’m going to keep telling myself that).
This has the unsavory whiff of one group of fans with “insider access” targeting someone who likes an aspect of the show that they don’t. Clif, Creation and J2 should all know better than to be drawn into stupid shipper fan wank.
I have to stand up for Cliff on this one. I’ll start by saying that I’m sorry Emily was set up and possibly targeted by malicious fans. That’s crazy and efforts should be concentrated on finding out who is doing that.
As for Cliff – he’s not a police or lawyer or judge. His job isn’t researching or “getting to the bottom of things” or attaining justice to all concerned. His only job is keeping J2 safe and making quick calls to assess possible threats. He did that, and I cannot blame him for not knowing a Dr. Horrible quote out of context or thinking that the text he saw could be threatening. It is not his job to follow up after the fact, and I think he tweet later was more in the spirit of “this is what I saw and acted on…so please stop messaging me about it”. The fact that we can even interact with a celebrity’s bodyguard on social media is somewhat of a miracle. He does not need to respond to the public about why he makes the calls he does.
For J2 – I doubt they “refused” to appear on stage. They were likely not even told something was happening (at least not until later). Their security team makes those calls. I’ve worked with enough of them to know…the security detail says “so and so will not go on stage until this is dealt with…” and the celebs are in the back unaware. I’m 98% sure that’s what happened. No one says “Hey, Prince…we think there is a possible threat to your safety in the audience. Do you want to go on stage or not?”
And for other serious twitter/SM threats to families and whatnot, I guarantee you if someone showed Cliff a tweet threatening one of the spouses and then said “and the person who made this tweet is sitting in seat 22B”, then #22B would be shown the door poste haste and not allowed to return.
Honestly, there is a reason you don’t joke about bombs at the airport…even famous jokes…even in a sarcastic tone. These people are paid to take all possible threats seriously. And they aren’t paid to figure out all the context of the situation. But with all that said, I’m very sorry this happened to her and it sounds very undeserved. If possible, figure out what fan was intentionally trying to get her booted. They are the person doing something wrong here.
I understand this position and I’m not faulting him for making a rash decision. The point that I disagree with is that I believe he should follow up with this. It’s his decision that is getting in the way of my reporter getting into the door of future conventions. Until he lets Creation know that this was made in error, she can’t report for me from future cons. So it is his job to correct this. Now that the threat has been proven to be false, my reporter should be able to continue doing her job and, at the very least, have her name cleared of wrong doing.
As far as the talent refusing to go on stage, that’s just what I was told by a representative from Creation. She could have been wrong. I tried to clarify the source of my information, but you’re right, they might not have known anything. The Creation rep could have either been misinformed or they could have been trying to save face or any number of other things. I don’t know. All I know is that that is what I was told. I’m hesitant from speculating on things beyond facts that have been given me and I’ve tried very hard to highlight what the facts are and what is just speculation.
Also, I do want to thank you for disagreeing in a respectful manner. This is a hugely explosive topic that has upset a lot of people, but civil discourse over these issues is hugely appreciated. I feel like I need to thank people who engage civilly because it’s such an emotional topic for a lot of us that a lot of comments are getting caught in our filter due to profanity. So again, thanks.
I do hope it gets resolved for her. From everything I’ve seen, it seems undeserved and she should be able to do her job covering the conventions without interference from crazed fan rivals.
First of all and just in case, sorry if my words will turn out to harsh, but
Angel K – set me straight, Emily is still not allowed to attend future Creation Cons because some dude refuses to check all the info he is being send about the threat being false? Yes?
…
*deep breathes*
This is when too much power over something is given to ONE person. Is this laziness? Or did his own “fans” overfeed his ego over the years and now he just cannot comprehend the fact that a) they may be wrong or just hmm EVIL (no, not all of them, just that one specific person and maybe their friends because someone HAD to crop that tweet and I don’t think his reaction would be the same if I came up to him) or that b) HE is the one wrong.
Because if this all comes down to the fact that the whole situation can’t be resolved because of ONE person then sorry, but this is the moment I loose all respect for Clif (I can understand why he did what he did – he trusted the person and believed the threat may be real? – but come on, his work doesn’t stop on kicking the person out, ESPECIALLY when shown proof)
As far as our understanding goes, yes, she was banned because of a Tweet and it was Clif’s decision. If this is incorrect information we have been given I hope that t is cleared up soon through official channels.
I’m trying hard not to pass judgement on Clif. I really am. It’s hard and I have some strong emotions about the part he played in this, but I’d like to urge people to not send him hate and try to get accurate information. We’re trying on our end and we hope the record gets set straight.
Part of Clif’s job, Vox, is to verify what is and what is not a threat. Given the lack of information on the tweet (there is no mention of Supernatural, Jared, Jensen, Creation or ChiCon), he should have looked for the context of the tweet to see if that was a real threat. The quote at the beginning of the tweet and its context clarify that it’s a sarcastic statement that is in no way threat for Jared and Jensen’s lives. Clif did not do his job properly. Neither did Creation, acting on hearsay without verifying the information they were given.
I don’t understand how an 11 day old tweet, capped and saved (the reply has a timestamp of 2hr, not 11 days), sat on for 2 days of the convention, and then right before the J2 Gold panel, is suddenly deemed threatening enough to not only have Emily Rose deemed a security threat, but banned from all future Creation cons. Where was Clif when the same group that have, for over a year, targeted Emily Rose, constantly slander Misha Collins?
I’m disgusted that I contributed to a gift that included items for him and the SPN PR staff. PR promos for s10 have been “bros only,” while fans wanting any promo footage of Misha Collins beyond “Roadkill!Cas” had to pay $50 for an iTunes s10 pass. They promoted the 200th as a “love letter” to fans, but thanks to a spoiler drop last month [spoilers sweetie]. Now, we can’t be sure if we can, after paying Creations high ticket prices, attend a con without risking being bullied, or worse, expelled (and defamed). Just posting this puts me at risk for being deemed a “security risk.”
Happy 10th Anniversary, Supernatural, indeed.
Have there been any updates or has Emily heard anything? If not she or anyone else really, may want to a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Anyone whose had a direct conflict with Creation can do it but in this case it might be good to have something on paper especially if they’re not responding. It probably won’t result in anything but it couldn’t hurt. bbb.org/losangelessiliconvalley/business-reviews/disc-jockeys/creation-entertainment-in-glendale-ca-92000593
I am still amazed that so far neither Creation nor Cliff or any of the responsible parties are coming out with any further explanation. Who ever sent the tweet to Cliff probably is planning who to attack next and get banned, because, even this vile human probably did not realize it would be this easy to hit a Misha/Cas fan.
Cliff should be ashamed that he is not exposing this person who sent him false information.
What he did was justified at that moment. But after explanations ignoring the truth and hiding the person who sent him the tweet could only mean one thing. That vile person is his friend.
And that to me is the real threat to J2.
If this happened to a man, Cliff and J2 probably would be apologizing by now.
But since it is a girl, who cares. Am I being extreme. Probably. But this show, is full of misogynistic individuals and it is the fault of women for putting them at a pedestal from which they don’t seem to see any injustice at all.
I hope the fans, who genuinely want to know the full truth and support the truth and the rights of human being to know who is accusing her and why they accused her, do not stop forgetting this and keep asking for justice.
how do you know this person is his friend. Do you know who sent it to TPTB? It could’ve been instagramed, or random tweeted or emailed you are accussing Clif of Slander, when you are defaming him yourself in a more dangerous way.which of the 34 people he actually follows did it if you know? What happend to Emily is not fair but you have to look at all side and remember there are 3 sides to every story . hers, his, the truth. All when this 1st came about correct me if im wrong but Emily said someone sent a fake tweet! it turned out it was something she was being “sarcastic” but the Destoying their show is not from the NPH Blog the first part yes but i think it was that 2 nd line that raised a red flag . When I dealing with the LGBT press in the South We got a lot of comments and hate mail that need to be sorted. the 2nd line would’ve raised a red flag. At least Creation did not file a police report for communicating threats they tried to diffuse it the best that they could. sorry for typos im typing on the phone.
The destroying their show does not directly relate to the Supernatural we all know and love. A few fans Said Emily was destroying their show by sending her gifts and seeing the show in a certain light. Meaning destroying the idea of Supernatural that those fans have in their head. Her response was to those haters. She was like I’m not up to any great evil but I will settle for destroying their (meaning the haters) show by still sending the spn 10 gifts and still seeing things in the show that she wants (as everyone has the right to). They said “you are destroying our show by being you.” Her response that was she was going to continue to be herself and stick to her beliefs.
Now if someone screen capped this and showed just that part they were fully well aware of the other part of the conversation. They chose this section to screen cap and present as evidence. They provided the context Clif used in his judgement. They willing made a false report.
Clif decision at the time to have her removed was not wrong. He got information and acted and i applaud him for that. Everything else after that had gone down hill.
No one from creation presented the evidence to Emily and asked for clarification. She was not allowed to defend herself. Now that light has come to the matter no1 has come forward as yet to address the issue.
Clif email is right that he did what he thought was right at the time. However after learning the truth he does not mention that he will look into the matter further. Maybe he is not tech savvy. I dis not know it was from a popular show. They have staff for that. It happened in the morning. I am sure someone could have volunteered to find out. I saw his tweet and it took me 2 mins to find her name and find the time line. Then I found her tumblr and went back to the start of the issues with the hatees and the gifts. That took me 5 mins. The convention lasted all day.
Another important point to note: someone took this screenscap days ago and sat on it until Sunday morning. They had this information of a “threat” and yet still allowed Emily to sit in the audience for 2 days and attend a free for all Kareoke (sp?) Party without alerting anyone to the threat that they knew. If I was truly concerned the first thing I would do is on registration inform somsone of my findings but this informer did not do this? Why? Because at that time creation might have looked into things and cleared it all up since its wasn’t a rush rush time. Were the other members of the cast not in danger as well if she was going to “destroy the show”. Mark Sheppard walked among fans during his panel did this informer not fear for his well being.
How was this person able to get close to Clif to present this information. I have been to a Creation Con and at no time did it look like I could just walk up to him. Random fans like myself don’t have that option.lets say this threat was tweeted or Instagram to him as I said before someone had to have given him context. Somsone who’s judgement he trusted.
I am trying have open discourse her and not to anger anyone. As I said Clif sis his job based on the inform he was given. That information turned out to be false. We are all taught that when our wrongs are pointed out to us we express apology.
How Cliffs emails could have gone: Dear blog staff, I did what I thought was best at the time. Now that I have heard the counter argument I will have it looked into.” He still gets to keep his pride in doing his job but he accepts that there could be more to the issue and that’s really all people are looking for.
And yes in publicly tweeting that screen cap he made Emily’s details known to everyone and publicly called her a threat. He might not have said the words in his tweet but Emily was told she was a threat and and Clif posted what he used to describe her as that to the creation staff. That is slander.
Hi me again. Don’t know if you have gotten the chance to read my other comment to your comment but i suggest you read that one first. Somsone said to me “how can the be two shows when we are all watching supernatura”. Well everything new thing we experience in life is influenced by everything we have expressed before. So no one is watching the exact same show. We all experience a different version based on the our minds fill in for us. Let us look at two examples. One real life, one spn related.
Fact: San Salvador is a capital city in Central America were men do cat calls to women.
Perception 1 (my own): I grew up in a place where this is also normal so I just took it in stride while walking and didn’t think anything of it. The city was normal to me as I had come to expect this type of behaviour from me. I had a wonderful time.
Perception 2 (a friend on the trip): is from a country where that does not happen and it’s very frowned upon. She was very upset and had a horrible Time.
Conclusison: we both went to the same city and had the exact same encounter but because of our previous experiences currently view the city in a different light. I like it, she doesn’t.
Supernatural example.
Fact: Dean Winchester is afraid of flying.
Perception 1 (not my own): A person who is also afraid of flying sees Dean’s traveling around the US going to same many placed might see Dean as a person hero to them for not allowing hus fear to hold him back from doing his job.
Perception 2 (my own): I do not fear flying can’t understand why he does. If he can face the apocalypse in my mind he should be able to face an airplane because all my past experiences with airplanes have been good.
Conclusion: we are both presented with the same fact about Dean but we both have differing view points of him. So her supernatural now stars a person hero while mine stars somsone who needs to face his fears. Every episode of Supernatural I watch after that will be influenced by how I see Dean based on that one fact. There me and that other person are watching two different versions of the same show.
Looks like people take great pride in showing lot of understanding and forgiving and providing benefit of doubt to celebrities. But when it comes to a common man or woman people forget to allow the same basic courtesy. Everyone defending Cliff or J2 give them a lot of levy, but do not give the same to fellow commoner.
In your opinion I have slandered Cliff, but you do not probably consider Emily slandered. Let me also point to you, I mentioned, I was speculating. I also mentioned my statements probably are extreme. But you conveniently ignored those and even had to involve the admin’s of this site asking why I am not being banned.
To me this is no different than the person who tweeted this stuff to Cliff and set this entire ugly situation rolling. Asking for punishment of someone who is speculating.
I do not see celebrities differently than common people. They are after all nothing but human beings and can and do same mistakes common people do.
And let me tell you why I think the person that tweeted it to Cliff is a friend. How? I am using my common sense. Granted that could be different from others, but I based my opinions on my common sense.
Cliff gets the tweet, let us say on Sunday Morning.
Let us say he got it from a random person he has no knowledge about.
What in that screen cap told him, it was about Supernatural?
What in that screen cap told him J2 were in danger?
What in that screen cap told him someone is threatening to ruin the show his clients are acting in.
What in that screen cap told him this person is attending ChiCon?
What in that screen cap told him this person is attending J2 Panel?
Why did he jump to the conclusion, this person will harm J2?
Further more, looks like enough calls were made or enough people were questioned, and Cliff had the time to discuss this with Creation and give them an ultimatum, unless the threat is removed, J2 will not start the panel.
Which means, with research it was found out that Emily was attending the convention. The same research produced other information of where she was sitting. Same research also provided other information about Emily.
But again as per my common sense, I am sure, same research would have provided people involved she has a Press Pass. Same research would have provided she already had attended the Con the previous 2 days. Same research would have provided she did not do anything to “ruin the show” in those two days.
Is the show written, directed, acted, produced, marketed and everything by Jensen and Jared only?
Wouldn’t any sane person think, if she meant “ruin the show”, she could have done that by threatening Misha, Mark, and other actors who were present there, in the prior 2 days?
So why the conclusion, “ruin the show” means only a life threat to Jared and Jensen?
Why did it not mean a threat to any one else present from the show there?
So if you still think, Cliff actions were based on a random person tweeting him this stuff and the only conclusion he could jump to is that J2 lives are in danger, then I am sorry he is even more unprofessional than I thought he is.
People are worried the hate Cliff and J2 are getting. But no one bothers about the hate Emily is getting for this. People are worried Cliff and J2 are getting slandered. But no one is worried how Emily has been slandered already, tried and made guilty all though after enough research, it is proven she is innocent and this was all a machinations of a crazed fan.
For any bodyguard to jump to the conclusion of “ruin their show” to mean,
“Ruin” = threat.
“Their” = J2.
“Show” = supernatural
and interpreted “ruin their show” into “Threat to J2 and Supernatural”, in my books is not fit to be a bodyguard.
Now some will say, how do you know that is all he got? Well that is all he has said. He specifically said, that is all he will say about this. When anyone is offering proof of what they did is right, they will present the most believable and most sensible proof.
This is all the proof he has presented. If he has more proof, it is his duty to share it with the accused and share the accuser information as well to the proper authorities including the owners and editors Emily works for. But he is not doing that. Why is he not telling the accused, who the accuser is. Doesn’t Emily even deserve that common decency? Is it because she is not a celebrity or a good-looking white male celebrity?
So I can safely conclude and or speculate, any sane person will not take a random tweet and jump to such illogical conclusions. To me, the only reason he could jump to those conclusions – in such a hyperbole – is if it came from a trusted source, a friend he trusts, who also told him other information about Emily, that not only could he/they act so swiftly, but also so brutally.
Before anyone says, this is not ship-wars. It is. Emily to my knowledge loves Dean and Cas and their interactions. Emily supports Cas a lot. That tweet to Cliff was not out of concerns about J2 safety. If it were, that person would have sent it when they found it. This crazed fan maliciously targeted Emily out of spite. No one seems to address that. People bring up questions like what if Emily supported Wincest. Who cares? Emily is still a human being, whose basic rights have been violated, based on a out of context screenshot from a person who only has spite and hatred in their heart.
I am thankful for all the people who are supporting Emily and are not blinded by celebrity beauty and celebrity power. I will forever stand with Emily.
I want to smother your post jensha is so much fandom hugs for the rational and level headedness.
Thank you Amanda for your kindness and heart warming words.
*big, fat SPECULATION sign* You know, I’m kind of wondering how this whole situation would go if Clif wasn’t so known.
Like, either in the eyes of some he is (or because of some he considers himself to a certain degree) a celebrity in his own right? I know that he’s on very good terms with J2, the crew etc. (dunno how it’s with other cast members), but in my opinion someone who works as a bodyguard should be able to keep his work and private life separate. And yes, I know it is easy to say for me but this is the internet and so I want to voice my opinions; he can be buddies with J2, cool (he protects them – they need to feel comfortable in his presence) but using this to gain any sort of status, following, a fanbase even seems unprofessional to me. And yeah, tweeting about ones job IS common and I would be a hypocrite to call him on that but *shrugs* well, call me a hypocrite, cause I see a difference.
Yes, this comes down to the fact that he posted Emily’s cropped tweet – seeing as we have no proof that she in fact did want to hurt *anyone* and that her screen name (though seeing that she is a reported we do know both her name and surname) was not blurred out it can be considered as slander.
*pulls out the sign again* I also wonder how exactly the situation would turn out if the police had been involved
I didn’t say you should be banned i said you were doing the same thing you accused someone else of? As for Clif he is there for the soul purpose of J&J.
we don’t know who or when that tweet was sent and by what format.
Living in the enviorment that this fandom is as well as the world today, every threat or percieved threat should be taken literly.
Personally I dont ship anything but I do read Slash As for Misha he is not the Star of the Show but were the same age and are from both from WMASS so when i say he’s a Masshole from Greenfield I say it with Love.
If Clif ignored that tweet and did nothing and something happened at that con he would have to live with that . He did his job and for 10 hours people sent him tweets as to what happened and demand a comment so he tweeted what was sent to him and that is all he said. Emily iam sorry you were hurt by this ” but is there anything in that tweet by Clif that was added or doctored or untrue?”
We all agree that Clif did his job and we are happy he kept them safe. However what I think what everyone has a problem with it is lack of investigation that took place after by the con organisers and the security staff. And then the seemingly arrogant reply when given an explanation. As you can see if you check her twitter now the tweet was not doctored. But that tweet by itself doesn’t threaten anyone or anything. If I showed this to my mom without providing context she wouldn’t know what was going on. Someone added context to this tweet for Clif. Someone told a story about this one screen cap. And as I said before if they were able to take this picture then they knew fully well what she was really talking about and they hid that from Clif. That malicious act is what really has people worried. That someone that cruel has been given that much power.
Usually personal attacks would be against the rules here but you’ve explained “Masshole” quite clearly so if you keep explaining it to avoid gettin reprimanded, trust me I’ve got it. I’m sure Misha would laugh at the term “Masshole” actually. So I hear you. Carry on.
-Admin Angel
Sorry about that i forgot the Def of the Term “Masshole” “Masshole- is a Guy or Girl from Massachusetts who expresses love by busting your balls. All others bow to them because they’re jealous of their ruleitude. They talk fast, walk fast, drive fast, think fast and no one gets their sense of humor because it is dripping with sarcasm. WE are proud of it, because we know that the rest of the country is too plebeian to understand the complexity of awesome that is us.”
Yes. You said, why are you not policing. You said this site was tolerating slander. Yes you said to ban me.
Where do you say that? Well you did. That is what I interpreted your statements to mean. I mean if Cliff interpreted “Ruin Their Show” to mean “Life Threat to J2 acting in supernatural Show”, why can’t I interpret your statements to mean asking for a ban?
I see you have clearly ignored my explanations and have gone back to hypothesis and what ifs and showing so much compassion on how much sleep Cliff would have lost if something happened to J2.
I guess that compassion towards the victim here, Emily, who probably has lost sleep and dejected and vilified is sorely lacking. I do not understand how people can show pity and sympathy to celebrities based on what may have happened, but cannot show sympathy to common people who actually are suffering. I know why. After all she is a victim. In this current society we do not care about victims, but we defend the perpetrators.
Cliff did wrong here. My speculation of him being friends with idiots is not going damage him at all. But what he did based on that tweet alone is unforgiveable. Because, no one can prove that the tweet sent to Cliff meant “Life Threat To J2”.
If you want to believe that is what that tweet means, then I hope every time you see a tweet of Ruin The Show anywhere on Twitter, you can screen cap it and send it to Cliff or else J2 might be in danger.
And why are you even discussing if Misha is a star of the show or not. Why and how is it relevant other than to belittle him? Did I say he was star of the show? So only “stars of the show” have value and any one else is immaterial?
In your mind also probably “ruin the show” only means death threats to J2 because they are “stars of the show” and it did not mean a death threat to Misha because he is not a star of the show.
Good to know.
I see CW PR is doing what they do best: ignoring it and hoping it will go away, or at least fade back onto the male Pinterest, rather than trend on twitter.
As well they should. This is between Emily and whomever got her banned. The CW is hardly involved.
The advertisers who have been paying more each year (The Variety has average ad rates s8 onward) look at the tweets to determine how the brand (the show) is perceived. The CW PR knows this. It’s why Bloodlines, which did fine in the 18-49 demo, didn’t get a pickup. Social media – twitter – was ruthless. Not tumblr. Twitter. “Tarnishing” the brand by tweeting about “this” instead of “happy flails” under the hashtag? That really doesn’t look good from the perspective of an advertiser.
I seriously doubt Twitter is the primary component as to why Bloodlines failed and how the brand is penultimately perceived. Fandom isn’t the only viewer; the greater audience are non-fandom viewers who watch the show but don’t dwell on it via social media sites.
The CW has bigger fish to fry, other than one small-time reviewer. (And this isn’t meant as a slam to Emily; she’s just not Savannah Guthrie or the like.)
This is outrageous. The tweet was about gift baskets and not about the con at all. And they banned her from J2 panel but they were fine when she was at the karaoke party? (you know the gift baskets were for everyone not only for J2 so why only J2 were supposedly in danger?
This is clearly attack on Emily and it has nothing to do with the actuall show.
And Clif and Creation event should be ashamed.
I’ve seen the ship wars mentioned more than a few times on here. If the situation was slightly different, if Emily was a vocal proponent of Wincest and the actor possibly in jeopardy was Misha, would you all be calling for Clif’s head? I understand some of you are not and I understand that the admin here is only trying to prompt a decent follow up to the incident. But honestly, would this be an issue if the incident was as I just described?
I don’t think it would make a difference to the people who stand with Emily. Ship wars may have played a part in why Emily was targeted by someone with malicious intent (technically we don’t know for sure, but that seems to be the speculation). But most of the anger, rightfully, is over the fact that Clif K. and Creation reacted with something as severe as a ban when they had apparently done no real investigation to see whether such a punishment would be reasonable, or whether there was something else going on here. Who ships what is irrelevant. It’s the injustice that’s upsetting.
Exactly. If it was the other way around and Emily was an outspoken but respectful and kind Wincest shipper, we would still be outraged at the current situation. At this point it has nothing to do with who you ship, we’re more upset and *rightfully so* pissed off at how everything has been handled *or in this case, NOT handled* by Creation and Cliff/PR. From Cliff’s two sentence response he doesn’t even seem to care one bit if he was wrong about Emily or not and doesn’t seem like he feels he owes anymore explanation than that screenshot tweet.
Thank you, and Ellery, for answering. I appreciate it. I’ve just seen Misha’s name brought up a few times, as well as the ship, when it really shouldn’t have a bearing. I know there are some who default to their ship’s side (on both sides).
I think if Clif had just left his statement at the first sentence, it would have been taken a little differently. But tack on the last sentence and it is definitely arrogant. I do hope we hear something from Clif, or at least Creation, today.
I would defend all of my authors the same way regardless of what they ship.
-Admin Angel
I do understand what you are trying to accomplish and did not mean to suggest you were basing your actions on a ship. My question was intended for those who brought the ships and Misha into the discussion.
Understood. I can’t speak for them, but I think many are bringing it up because she was harassed for shipping and actor preferences so they might feel it’s relevant. Whether those people who harassed her had anything to do with this has yet to be confirmed. It’s all speculation. But that’s my best guess about why others feel the need to bring it up.
-Admin Angel
probably not. a few cons back they asked for the panel questions be about the actual show, it could be their families and personal hobbies etc they did as that it not be about fan fiction no matter the ship. due to various reasons not all fans like the content sometimes there are children between 2-15 that don’t know of all the fanfiction. The Destial faction has tried to get respectable LGBT Publications such as the “Advocate” to accuse the show of Homophobia and “Queerbaiting” I know the boys are “Pretty” but they sadly are Hetero and Not Bi-sexual as a Lesbian who is over 40 and personally prefers M/M Action I still have to agree no matter what we want to see we can’t force someone to change their sexuality . I know most slash writers are straight females and a few lesbians, gay , bi, and transgendered. My Bestfriend did column on it back in 2007 re: SuperNatural, Vampire Diaries (book) matt damon /ben affleck as well as the original Kirk /Spock like i prev. stated it fun to read when its not about lil kids w/ adults and dogs.
In 2007 it was a completely different show: the showrunner matters. Eric Kripke’s last season as showrunner was season 5, Sera Gamble was showrunner for season 6 and 7, Jeremy Carver has been showrunner since season 8. (okay, Gamble and Carver, technically co-showrunner with Bob Singer).
I’m also a Pioneer Valley resident. For over a decade. I can take the B43 to Northampton, I’m not in the Hilltowns. Please don’t overgeneralize the realm behind the tofu curtain.
Noho is a great place but i was referring to the Advocate (National L.G.B.T Publication used to be magazine now only has online ) not the Valley Advocate.
im not in the hill towns im south of noho down I91.
the 2007 remark was a random gay article on slash fiction in a Southern LGBT Pub. not just SPN.
A couple points:
1) Emily is an entertainment journalist, who was attending the convention as part of her job. As a result of this action she had been banned from all Creation events. This includes more than just Supernatural events, since she has attended cons for more than one fandom as part of her job. Banning her is more than an inconvenience – it directly affects her ability to report, her prospects with future employers, and fundamentally her ability to do her job. Americans have always taken a dim view of screwing with other people’s livelihoods. That’s why horse stealing used to be a hanging offense in Texas.
2) Basic competence in a security professional includes the ability to do threat assessment. There is nothing in the tweet that promises concrete action. There is nothing that names the show or any specific person. There is nothing that names a venue, place, time, or any elements of a plan. There is nothing that indicates stalking behavior or mental instability. The idea that a message of 140 characters that contains none of that information is a viable threat is frankly ridiculous on the face of it. Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he should have removed her – you should also consider that having him hare off against non-existent threats would be a great way to distract him from protecting J2. Not to mention that in the absolute most generous scenario he got played by a vindictive fan very easily. He clearly has no training in security and has unquestionably demonstrated both incompetence and unprofessional behavior in this whole debacle. Honest to god, there are so many unemployed veterans that could ACTUALLY protect J2, why don’t they give one of those guys a job and let Clif go back to being a bouncer or whatever he was before this.
3) Emily is a mom from Dallas, one who was deliberately trying to avoid conflict by going to a convention out of state. I kind of wonder how Jensen and Jared would feel if their moms were treated like this by some celebrity’s bodyguard? Publicly humiliated, falsely and arrogantly accused, with damage to her career. What would they think about the celebrity’s who let it happen and didn’t bother to make sure that someone who had steadfastly supported their show was treated decently.
4) Emily has tried for a long time to help the fandom treat each other better by speaking up for people who were being bullied, many of whom have been young, vulnerable fans. She’s tried to help organize shows of appreciation for cast and crew. She is exactly the kind of fan that Supernatural should be trying to attract. Instead, she’s disrespected and driven away. Why?
I mean, did J2 hate their gift baskets that much? (Oh, wait, that’s sarcasm. Next they’ll decide I’m a threat and run away… run away… Oh crap, I just quoted Monty Python. I’m just making it worse!)
Tigerlilly,
I could not agree with you more. Each and every word you state is relevant, logical and to the point.
I applaud you for stating what you did this way.
Especially your third point. Thanks You.
*claps*
It’s one of those messages I wish I could send to J2 so they would see that (I’m not gonna spam anyone on twitter, especially since it’s not my place to do so, I just wish that they would see how this whole situation plays out, because I do think that they’re kept from most of the situation apart from things CLIF deemed necessary to tell them :x)
This perfectly sums up what i think about this situation. Thank you it was spot on!
The fact that Clif tweeted that screenshot as justification for his actions makes me question his professionalism. A professional would not have an account on Twitter to begin with, and certainly wouldn’t share the supposed “threat” with everyone!
I agree with the Cliff statement but why wouldn’t a professional have an account on twitter? Many, many professional people use it.
I get that some people use Twitter for networking purposes. But Clif uses his account to interact with fans on occasion, which is not very professional in my opinion. As was pointed out as an example by someone I follow on Twitter, NKOTB gets threats. However, you couldn’t pry the who or the circumstances out of their security if you tried. None of them are on Twitter. And they certainly wouldn’t tweet like Clif did to justify their assessment of a situation. We wouldn’t even know there *was* a situation. That’s how a professional security person does their job. Clif is far from professional.
All manner of professionals have twitters. Emily herself has one, and is a self-described “TV reporter” who tweets out plenty of personal, not particularly professional tweets (witness the tweets that got her tattled on, to begin with.) I think the whole shebang was a mess, start to finish, but no one is faultless here.
I’m sure Creation and Clif learned a thing or two; I hope Emily did too.
Problem is, Clif has done this before – gotten an innocent person harassed because he couldn’t be bothered to do his job properly.
You hope Emily learned what, Red? That she can no longer joke with her friends or use sarcasm because someone may use it against her? I disagree with you. Emily did nothing wrong. Her accuser, Clif and Creation did.
I am happy to read Emily’s recent tweets. I am glad Creation was open to conversation and lifted the lifetime ban. They at least seem to care about doing the right thing, once all the facts have come out.
It finally feels good and feels like a small victory against crazed fans bullying and machinations against other fans who don’t happen to like what they like.
It has been a long time since love and support and truth won over the hatred and lies that is so prevalent in SPN fandom. I don’t know any of you that posted here showing your support for Emily, but I feel happy to have joined you all in showing support for Emily.
Clif deleted the “evidence” tweet, but he’s also blocked everyone who has showed support for Emily, including SPN Wikia.
Wow, what a child. Instead of offering an apology to Emily *which wouldn’t take much time and effort at all* he’s ignoring the fact that he made a mistake and making himself look really bad. :/
Lets try to keep the name calling out of the discussion. I understand the frustration with Clif, but that’s against the rules of the site.
-Admin Angel
Did Creation change their mind? I was told that they reversed their decision about the lifetime ban and refunded the woman who was removed her money, including some costs of her stay. If so, I am glad to hear it.
Not knowing the details of who asked for the ban or when that decision was made, I’m not sure what to think of the actions of the bodyguard. Removing her in the immediate moment might have been warranted and that is his job, so he did what he was supposed to do. After that, he doesn’t and shouldn’t have either any more responsibility or ability to make decisions for the convention. Investigating her further I don’t think is his job, unless he was concerned there were others. So does he owe her an apology? I’m not sure. But if he was instrumental in getting her the lifetime ban in the first place and/or making demands on Creation with regard to that ban without investigating, then yes he does.
I honestly think that the CW should (behind the scenes, it doesn’t need to be public at all) look into who made the initial accusation, why the bodyguard believed it, and why such immediate judgment was passed on the woman in the first place and insist that the actors get a new bodyguard that is impartial, as it appears this bodyguard they have now is not. I can’t see how anyone can do their job effectively if they allow themselves to part of having any kind of “following” themselves.
The bodyguard is to be commended for his actions in asking for Emily to be removed from the panel based on the information he received at the time.
However I don’t think he had the right to ban her immediately from all Cons ad he requested that Creation do without further investigation. If this was such a serious threat I do believe it was his Duty to look further into the matter. It appears he took the screenshot of the tweet and the word of the Informer at face value. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he trusted this person and had no reason to trust Emily so I can understand him initially not believing anything she had to say. What I don’t understand why he tweeted the photo to 80 k followed on twitter instead of discussing sensing the accused proof of the accusation.
After the tweet was posted and Emily saw what happened she cleared it up. The tweet was 2 weeks old and spoke to about her being bullied. It was also taken many days before the convention which allows you to know that someone took this photo and plotted against her.
After this is brought to the bodyguards attention he doesn’t issue a statement to say he will look onto it or any acknowledgement that maybe he didn’t have all the information.
Clif was the one to ask Creation to enact her ban and so he had to be the one to remove it.
I am happy Clif removed the tweet. But by blocking all of Emily’s supporters on twitter he shut down all lines if communication. I do also believe Emily should be spoken in private by whoever is in charge so she can take any legal action she deems fit. Maybe the reason we haven’t heard from the CW is that they are speaking with lawyers as to how best move forward. Since an apology is an admission of guilt they may fear Emily will sue Clif and the CW which is entirely a possibility. Maybe they want to clearly show Emily who the person is and show that was deceived and he was not at fault. If that’s the reason I am ok. But there should at least be a note to say they are looking into the matter. If they are staying silent in hopes of it going away I don’t think that is going to happen.
Clif seems like a nice guy. A bit too friendly with fans but not a terrible person himself. But he was used as a tool by a bad person to hurt someone else and the assurance that this won’t happen again is what people want.