Tyler Posey is on a Ship!
Well, he’s on the dock, or he got tickets to the marina and is really thinking about going. Point is, 5 years after the Bizarre, Weird, Twisted debacle (otherwise known as BWT or Poseygate^1 – yes, there are more) tore apart a fandom, Tyler Posey has started talking ships again… kinda.
First, let’s take a stroll down memory lane for some context:
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mutNFIu8iU]Starting at 1:38 for those who don’t remember, Bizarre, Weird, Twisted occurred during an interview with Hollywood Life (and everyone’s favorite Andy Swift). Posey, Holland Roden, and Tyler Hoechlin were present, and Andy Swift was doing a follow-up question with Tyler Hoechlin about Sterek. Sterek is a non-canon Teen Wolf ship between Stiles Stilinski (Dylan O’Brien) and Derek Hale (Tyler Hoechlin).
Tyler Posey had this to say:
“I think that Sterek is a bizarre, weird, twisted thing. And I think that anyone who pays more attention to Sterek than the show isn’t watching the show for the right reasons. And that’s all I have to say about that.”
A pretty hefty statement given that no one was really asking him, but additionally one that had repercussions throughout the fandom particularly with Sterek fans and slash shippers.
Some excused his actions saying he was just frustrated with the overexposure of Sterek and his response wasn’t homophobic. While Posey has made mention of other slash ships like Scisaac (or Scott/Isaac) here and there, he’s never referenced or even acknowledged his BWT statements beyond the initial interview. In fact, the next time he mentioned Sterek was in a video nearly 4 years later:
At 1:30, Posey is asked about his favorite Sterek scenes and goes on to mention how sweet and funny all of their scenes are. Then he lists one where Derek smashed Stiles’ head into a steering wheel and another where Stiles reacts badly to Derek puking black blood. So sweet! So funny (and coincidentally a couple of scenes the antis love to use to show how abusive Sterek is to detract from shipping it).
Cue 2019, 5 years since BWT and both Posey and Dylan O’Brien are cast in queer roles. Dylan as part of a cross-generational relationship in YouTube’s Weird City and Tyler Posey in Starz’ Now Apocalypse which I’ve given my reaction about.
Since promo has begun for Now Apocalypse, Posey has been talking a lot about the Scott/Stiles (or Sciles) relation”ship”. To the uninitiated, this might not be a connection that makes sense, but if you’re familiar with BWT it might almost seem timely… almost.
During a recent interview, Posey was asked by Pride.com if he thought Teen Wolf fans would enjoy Now Apocalypse and at 1:15 he gave the following answer.
“I think the Stiles and Scott shippers, or anyone that shipped anyone on Teen Wolf or just loved the show enough and loved us enough to be proud of us no matter where we go, you know? I mean- I… I would love to see more Scott and Stiles stuff too, you know? I love Dylan, and I loved working with him. And I don’t know if any other show would allow us to work together again because it’d be so similar to Teen Wolf, but I would love- I mean- I hope they’re happy! You should be! It’s so sweet and genuine and it’s so tasteful, it’s great. I’m very happy with the outcome of Now Apocalypse.”
Then recently he was asked at the Supanova convention in Melbourne, Australia what his favorite ship on Teen Wolf was.
After clarifying whether the question applied to any relationship, he then began to talk about the intense friendship of Scott and Stiles.
Sterek and queer ship fans have gotten a lot of flack for “still holding a grudge over BWT after all this time”. The excuse of, “that was so long ago, get over it” is often used, without the acknowledgment that it’s been the same amount of time without any apology or even acknowledgment from Posey himself. One of the problems is that his suspiciously phobic behavior still exists, from his joke “coming out” to mocking the “we’re here, we’re queer” chant. And it would be one thing if Posey were unaware of the infraction he made against Sterek and slash shippers, but it’s clear by Posey’s actions and even that of the cast that he knows.
During Werewolfcon3 in October of 2017, Tyler Hoechlin (in a panel with Holland Roden, both who were present during the original interview) had the following to say when asked how the cast felt about Sterek:
http://allthetylertalk.tumblr.com/post/165929188021/englishismine-tyler-on-sterek-werewolfcon3
“I believe someone on the show at one point possible may have made some comments that were ill-informed, incredibly ill-informed… So if anyone’s ever been offended, I apologize.”
Clearly, this was referring to Tyler Posey and the inference here is that Posey knows but is refusing to do anything about it. This dismissal juxtaposed against several articles about how he wants to be an inspiration to the LGBT+ community and how comfortable he is in his sexuality is causing a lot of confusion in the fandom, and a large amount of unrest.
He seems to be straddling the fence a bit. Would it be safe to assume that the current mention of Sciles is his way of saying he was accepting of non-canon queer ships on the show all along?
Probably not, and here’s why:
- He’s spoken freely about how much he would dig “Scisaac” which is the pairing of Scott McCall and Isaac Lahey. Yes, a queer ship that happens to involve him. But he also knew there was no way of this ever happening and when asked about ships he never mentions it organically.
- Every time he mentions Scott/Stiles he makes sure to talk about them as platonically as possible. He may say “ship” but he doesn’t acknowledge the queer or romantic parts.
So I know what you’re thinking. Why can’t you get over it? Why can’t you just let it go and let him live his life?
This is why:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwA-0iZBbWj/
“She thinks I got a big head. Hers is just tiny 🙂 I’m constantly trying to figure myself out and the impact I have on the world and people. I want to make such a difference but it’s hard trying to verbalize how I want to do it. I want to relate to everyone through my experiences and show the world there are no tiers and we’re all equal as far as I’m concerned. But that’s hard to say because I’ve had somewhat of a privileged life. But I don’t want it sometimes. It puts me in a position that seems to put myself on a pedestal. But I’m realizing I want to use that position I’m in for something great. And something bigger than myself. I’ve had sort of a confusing journey. But I’ve got to start somewhere #DontTakeYourself2seriously”
He conveniently turned off commenting and I think it was to avoid comments like, “hey… we’ve already told you the impact you’re having on what was a large percentage of your fanbase and you ignored it because it made you uncomfortable.” I could have safely guaranteed him that the issue has never been him taking himself too seriously. Ever.
Tyler Posey wants to relate to others and talk about equality but he won’t even apologize to a group of fans who happily watched his show and supported him. He says he was put in a position where he puts himself on a pedestal because of his privilege, but he can barely see past the tip of his own nose to use that privilege to make amends and begin the healing process.
This weekend Posey will be at a convention with Tyler Hoechlin in Brisbane, Australia. Will he take the time, with Hoechlin’s support to address BWT and put an end to it for good? At this point, he’s only got to gain. He’s got fans just waiting to forgive him and the tension that has been caused by his words might finally get some closure, but it’s ultimately going to be up to him.
I’m anxious to see if he’ll rise to the challenge.
A QUICK NOTE ABOUT COMMENTING:
Please read the points below – and the Geekiary’s policy – before commenting:
- Sterek was big, but not as big as Posey. It was always his show and Stereks were supportive. Stereks began to dislike Scott because of the writing on the show and the increasing vitriol from the antis.
- Many of the negative connotations Posey got of Sterek were from antis. This includes lying about death threats to Posey to his mom (I have the receipts, you can’t fight me on this) and in general that we somehow took over and were unwelcome.
- Sterek only got as big as it did because of participation from the show and showrunners. At any time Jeff Davis had the opportunity to simply say that it wasn’t going to happen but he appreciated us and please keep watching, etc, etc. People love to say that we would have stopped watching, but the star of the show called us freaks and we kept on.
- THIS IS NOT A VERSUS WAR! I don’t care what Hoechlin, Dylan, Holland, Chris Evans, the writers at Voltron, your mom, etc have done in their pasts. This post is about Tyler Posey and the effect HIS behavior and HIS decisions have had in shaping the current state of the fandom.
- I do and did give Posey a lot of benefit of the doubt at the time. Jealousy can be a strong thing and coupled with his ignorance at the facts of the situation there wasn’t a lot he could assume otherwise. However, that’s where there’s an expiration period. He’s had multiple instances of terrible behavior towards the fandom and it’s always gone unchecked. He keeps wanting to make a fresh start, well letting go of this baggage will surely make his load a lot lighter.
I don’t hate Posey, but I am disappointed. I expect more from him and I don’t think being a generally decent human being is too much to ask. Especially when the solution is so simple.
Author: StickyKeys
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Let it go [redacted] Like you said it’s been five years, move the hell on.
Thank you for showcasing the exact reason an apology is so needed.
You know rewriting history doesnt make your version of events true. Have fun fetishizing white gay relationships and demonizing anyone who comes in between it
I didn’t rewrite history, I corrected it with receipts. Unless you have a point in particular you disagree with.
Additionally, while the wow factor of phrases like “fetishizing white gay relationships” may seem like a potent attack tactic, it doesn’t make it an effective one. 1) You can’t presume to know the motives of everyone who shipped Sterek and b) Sterek wasn’t a gay relationship, it was a queer one, many acknowledge Derek as pan and Stiles as bi.
If in order to attack someone you disagree with, you have to erase the validity of others, then your attack isn’t as valid as you think it is.
Lastly, not that I ever needed your permission, but I will have fun! Thanks!
I gave Posey a window of opportunity to address his comments. I think five years is enough lead time for that. It’s clear he has no interest in apologizing or reframing his statement. Any feeble attempts he has subsequently made to appeal to the LGBT community are lost on me. Whatever he does now is just so he can jump on the diversity bandwagon.
That’s another reason I feel he needs to acknowledge it. It taints every attempt he makes at trying to relate to the community. I don’t think he’ll admit the connection to himself, but between this and the fake coming out, the lgbt+ community does not forget.
I think he called it odd because there is literally no Canon support for it – they in fact were abusive at best most of their relationship – and the massive age difference.
I’ve read a lot – A LOT – of TW fanfic and it’s worth noting that a majority of the Sterek is AU and often gifts Stiles all of Scott’s empathetic & caring qualities. And this was a trend among not only Scott & stiles but with Danny & Jackson and, later, Mason & Liam – brown male characters having their personalities transplanted into their white BFF for shipping.
And if we’re REALLY honest – given the Canon there’s no logical reason why you wouldn’t see how possessive Stiles was of Scott or how obsessed Derek was with him – admitting to stalking him, saying in the show finale he literally only returned for Scott – or a lot of the boys Scott’s age and not see slash potential (Isaac especially but let’s not forget Theo either) but for some reason all of that was given to his white friend instead. Scott is ‘so boring’ when his personality is used and ‘hard to write’ when most of those fics are AUs? Make it make sense please.
His wording was off but of the main male trio he’s the only one that was even open to playing his character as bisexual and has gone on to do so since. I just don’t understand why he’s being held to a higher standard than Hoechlin or Dylan when it’s clear to me that – giving benefit of the doubt – he is supportive in general of TW slash shipping and until we acknowledge the racial elements surrounding this hight standard we’ll never get anywhere productive.
Literally every single one of your points has been referenced in the article (except the traits thing which has been debunked to death on Tumblr).
I’ll give you time to re-read it, but ultimately regardless of his feelings his anger was misplaced. He chided the fans when it was the showrunners that played into the furor of sterek. He punched down and someone at his level as the lead of a show should never do that
More importantly, he enabled his stans to treat their fellow fandom members terribly in his name. He needs to undo that He missed a great opportunity this weekend.
you didn’t address the racial aspect that I mentioned. Dylan and Hoechlin ‘no homo’ed’ their way around this topic and were left alone but Posey has to address this in order to be forgiven for something you said yourself you give the benefit of the doubt on?
It just really offends me as a gay man that Sterek – a ship primarily made from pushing together the two closest proximity white guys despite canon interaction – became this rally cry for representation when both Danny & Mason were literally right there being canonically gay but were ignored. You cannot erase how much race permeates the fandom response to Posey vs. Hoechlin and O’Brien.
I love how Danny being written-off the show and Mason not really having much of a fandom (because he was written so brilliantly and played amazingly by the actor… lol) is the fault of Sterek fans. I love how everything is the fault of Sterek fans by the way. Posey calling out Sterek = fault of Sterek fans. The show dropping in views = fault of Sterek fans. People not realizing the amazing talent, storylines, and queer rep featured in this series = fault of Sterek fans.
Well you have two things incorrect. Mason and Danny weren’t “just right there”. Danny was a side character and showed up very little. Mason didn’t appear until season 4.
Both Derek and Stiles were in every episode. Also, while I understand that YOU didn’t see sterek, I think you can understand that not everyone watches with the same point of view as you. Teen Wolf delves in tropes and if you’re savvy then the Sterek is blaring.
I didn’t see Sterek when I first started watching the show, but it was because I didn’t like Derek. I glossed over a lot and I was a huge skittles shipper. It wasn’t until I went back and watched the show more critically that I began to question the Scott/Stiles relationship and I really empathized with Derek. For me it was like the blinders had been taken off.
Now race-wise, what you’re talking about is a show issue. They prioritize their white twinks, there’s just no denying that. They took the black boy who was Stiles 2.0 and made him the villain of the second season and then were like “oh, but not really, lol!”. I put Mason in a lot of my fics and Sterek fandom embraced Danny so I don’t even understand that rant.
Either way, this is not something I’ve ever asked of Tyler Posey. I just want him to apologize for insulting his fans. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by Dylan and Hoechlin no-homo’ing their way around the topic but I think it does bring up one VERY major point of why this is a problem.
If they’d asked Dylan or Hoechlin, we’d have an issue, but Sterek directly involves them. Sterek doesn’t involve Posey, he took it upon himself to insert himself because he wasn’t getting the attention he wanted. Hoechlin has talked about Sterek, some good, some bad and when it was bad he made amends. Now it’s Posey’s turn.
What “empathetic and caring” traits are you eventi talking about? Lol! I think you are confusing fanon with canon, Andrew S., because canon Scott McCall is neither caring nor empathetic. The literal opposite, actually.
And when has Stiles ever been possessive of Scott exactly? According to actual canon, Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one who repeatedly assaulted an abuse victim and threw him against the wall just because he couldn’t stand the thought of his former girlfriend choosing someone else over him; Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one whose greatest fear was Allison choosing Jackson over him; Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one who has always treated his friends and female love interests like an exclusive property of his because “True Alpha”; Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one who badly injured human!Liam on purpose just because Scott was jealous of human!Liam’s innate talent and prodigious lacrosse skills and wanted to keep human!Liam from taking his precious title of captain of the Beacon Hills lacrosse team; Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one who lashed out at his neurodiverse best friend, accused him of being a serial killer for daring to accidentally kill someone in self-defense, and then pushed him out of the pack just because he was mad said neurodivergent best friend didn’t his own trauma with a dumb self righteous hypocrite and holier-than-thou asshole who takes him for granted and who has been treating him like “broken, violent, paranoide, unstable freak” throughout the whole series; Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one who wanted to bite his neurodivergent best friend against his will because “It’s the only way! With Stiles back, he’ll be able to help us come up with a plan!” (Malia: “He’s good at that.”); Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one who attempted to emotionally blackmail his former girlfriend into getting back with him by sending her pics and bothering her with unwanted attentions; Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one who tried to shift all the blame for his own dumb, shitty actions and disastrous failures onto Stiles (“B-B-B-BUT YOU TRUSTED HIM TOO!”) and then literally forced Stiles to draw that hideous tattoo in the dust ’cause “You are part of the pack, right?” and “WE have to get the others back! One by one!”; Scott’s the jealous, possessive, controlling one who referred to Stiles, Lydia, Liam, Malia, and Kira as “MINE” more than once in the actual show.
So yeah, if there’s a possessive character on Teen Wolf, that’s definitely Scott McCall. Not Stiles, Derek, or anyone else.
As for you claiming that Derek is “obsessed” with Scott, the show writers and producers made it abundantly clear that Scott and Derek have a big brother/little brother bond and dynamic which purposely mirrors the Scott and Liam’s one, so canon proves your own personal Scott centered shipping fantasies wrong as well, Andrew!
Also, while I can admit there’s a lot of chemistry and slash potential between Theo & Stiles (what with Theo wanting to get rid of Scott in order to keep Stiles all for himself and being literally obsessed with Stiles) and between Theo & Liam (what with Theo being genuinely interested and caring about Liam and being willing to risk his own life to protect Liam), I don’t see any between Theo and Scott; what with Theo noto showing an ounce of regret for murdering Scott, openly saying that he has no use for Scott, murdering Scott without batting an eye lash and then bragging about getting Scott out of the way in front of Stiles, Malia, and Braeden in the very next episode.
But, ya know, you do you, boo! Just don’t come here faking outrage and preaching about how people should respect canon when you and your delusional squad buddies are the first ones who sistematically twist/erase/ignore everything canon in order to feed your own personal self fabricated Scott centered power fantasies and delusions and bash every single compelling Teen Wolf character in order to prop your personal fav Scott up pls. Because that’s literally Hypocrisy 101
No one’s fault Dylan O’Brien has sexual/romantic chemistry with literally EVERYONE, honey! There are tons of articles and receipts on it and on Stiles’ undeniable chemistry and slash potential with pretty much every single Teen Wolf character.
There’s none on Posey’s or Scott’s lack of thereof though. *shrugs*
Lol!