We Need To Talk About Tyler Posey
When I logged into Tumblr earlier today it didn’t take me long to figure out what had happened. Someone’s insulting slash fans again, must be Tuesday. I wasn’t even surprised to discover that Teen Wolf’s Tyler Posey was the offender and Sterek was the subject – as many fans have pointed out he has more reason than most to dislike Sterek – but when I watched the interview in question I was surprised by how much it actually hurt.
I should preface this by saying that I am a Sterek shipper, but I am also a huge fan of Tyler Posey. His interviews are usually a source of joy for me, his carefree energetic personality comes is a breath of fresh air and, unlike many other young stars, he doesn’t often say offensive things. Tyler Posey is one my favorite parts of the Teen Wolf fandom and maybe that’s why this hurt so much.
The interview, for Hollywood Life , was fairly routine. Tyler Posey, Holland Roden and Tyler Hoechlin were asked about various romantic relationships including of course Sterek. The interviewer even prefaces the Sterek questions with the usual patronizing dismissal of fandom but Posey took things to a whole new level when he said: “I think Sterek is a bizarre weird twisted thing and I think that anyone pays more attention to Sterek than the show isn’t watching the show for the right reasons.”
There is part of me that desperately wants to be able to defend Posey, but there isn’t much room for interpretation. Although there was some background laughter as Posey begins by the end of his speech it was pretty clear that he was being sincere.
As I mentioned in the opening paragraph, Tyler Posey has reason to be somewhat annoyed by Sterek. As Aja Romano from The Daily Dot puts it: “On top of [Dylan] O’Brien’s popularity, there’s Sterek—a phenomenon which focuses on two characters who don’t have a lot of onscreen interaction. That’s got to be at least a little annoying for Posey, who’s faced with the possibility that much of the show’s success may be due to fans latching onto something he thinks isn’t there.”
A lot of fans recognise this, which is why most of the responses I encountered were conflicted by Posey’s words. Many fans came out in defense of the actor because his previous interactions with Sterek might not have been positive.
Tumblr user tacoposey: “He doesn’t see those ridiculously deep and amazing posts or those fanfics that mean a lot to you or how great some of the sterek shippers are- because the connotation that comes with sterek (due to fandom wars and online postings) is mostly negative.”
Tumblr user otherbully1: “Posey is nothing but sweet as hell to all kinda of people in this fandom, but I promise you that at some point he startedd(sic) coming across so much negative shit about him and his character in favor of sterek and hobrien.”
Tumblr user lycanthropique: “he didn’t handle the question with tons of grace and professionalism, but he was clearly just tired and fed up, and his frustration is valid”.
These are all valid reasons that Posey might be frustrated by Sterek’s prevalence but that doesn’t change the fact that Posey’s words were offensive to a large chunk of his show’s fandom. As Tumblr user diiingus said: “i dont even care if tposey likes sterek or not whats wrong is how he insulted his own fans because they do he has a right to his opinion but he could have handled and said that a lot better”.
If we’re going to put Posey’s words into context then we have to do that with the fandom’s reaction as well. Slash fans have consistently been dismissed and insulted by the media and the people that make the things they love. For the most part we accept it as an inevitable part of being a slash fan. At least we used to, but as slash slowly comes out of the shadows and into the mainstream slash fans are less likely to accept insults.
In fact Sterek, and as a result Teen Wolf, owes much of its visibility to the increasingly vocal slash fanbase. Way back in 2012, Sterek fans did not just accept it when EW.com snubbed them from a Summer TV Shipping Poll and that resulted in AfterElton’s (now The Backlot) Ultimate Slash Madness Tourney and a weekly column about slash fandom. As well as a number of high profile articles and A LOT of mainstream recognition of slash and shippers in general.
I’ve been in slash fandom for over fifteen years and I have to say the way that Sterek was embraced and discussed by the cast, writers and official social media of Teen Wolf was A HUGE DEAL. Sure Sterek shippers might have taken their passion to the extreme at times but let’s face it, Teen Wolf relied heavily on social media interaction for promotion and if it wasn’t for the active, enthusiastic fandom (much of which ship Sterek) this show probably wouldn’t have been such a huge success. Not that I’m suggesting fandom (or Sterek) is the ONLY reason for Teen Wolf’s popularity but it’s impossible to ignore that fandom had a significant impact.
So while Posey might be justified in his annoyance of Sterek’s saturation, fans have every right to be angry at what he said. Shipping might seem frivolous to outsiders, so they often don’t consider the impact before insulting it, but it means a lot to us. Having someone we like and respect tell us that something we love is “is a bizarre weird twisted thing” is not a pleasant experience, especially when we have been told similar things hundreds of times before.
As Tumblr user ricaresin put in an open letter to Tyler Posey: “People who look up to you and people who admire you get to read your words over, and over, and over again and question and read into what they mean. People who love you, and who also love Sterek, now sit back and think.. Something I like is bizarre, weird, twisted? Does that make me twisted? Does that make me weird? Am I watching this show for the wrong reason? People now murmur in the shadows about boycotting the next episode.. we won’t, because we love it. People tweet anger and sadness and bitterness and try to get recognition, because our feelings are hurt. We want validation.”
That’s the thing, I want to dismiss Tyler Posey’s words because it’s not entirely his fault. He doesn’t know. Like tacoposey said: “HE DOESN’T SEE WHAT WE SEE.” And yeah, a lot of this is because mainstream media continues to paint slash as something deviant, something to be laughed at and certainly not something to be taken seriously. But you know what? It doesn’t really matter because even if Posey didn’t have all the facts, even if he has every reason to be frustrated by Sterek, it still doesn’t excuse his rude and disrespectful words.
That doesn’t mean I am going to stop watching Teen Wolf, or that I am going to stop liking Tyler Posey. He is still completely adorable and I am still thoroughly impressed by his performance this season. But I’m also not going to let him get away with making the people I care about most in the world (and for me fandom is my family) feel bad about what they love. Tumblr user theasterbunny said it best: “I am criticizing what he said, how he handled the question, not him as a person. This is the first time I’ve ever felt like criticizing him, because Tyler Posey so far has done nothing but given me good impressions before this interview.”
I am a slash fan, I write A LOT about slash fandom and I genuinely love it (even though I recognise its MANY problematic aspects) and it REALLY upsets me that this fantastically creative queer female dominated community is constantly dismissed and insulted because people don’t understand it. It’s worse because they don’t even TRY to understand it. Websites like Hollywood Life are perfectly happy to use us as click bait and shows like Teen Wolf continue to use our enthusiastic support as a source of publicity. But then when someone outright insults us we’re accused of overreacting when we get upset.
Honestly, we don’t really need to talk about Tyler Posey, because yeah he said something disappointing (I don’t want to ignore that) but really he’s just the product of a larger problem, and that is what we should be talking about.
Author: Undie Girl
Undie Girl (aka Von) has a BA (Hons) Major in Cultural Studies. The title of her honours thesis was “It’s just gay and porn”: Power, Identity and the Fangirl’s Gaze. She’s currently pursuing a Masters of Media Practice at University of Sydney. Von’s a former contributor The Backlot’s column The Shipping News and a current co-host of The Geekiary’s monthly webcast FEELINGS… with The Geekiary.
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136 thoughts on “We Need To Talk About Tyler Posey”
Well stated and incredibly fair. Thank you for putting it all into words.
As always thank you for your lovely response Angel. 🙂
I still hope MTV makes an official apology. We deserve that, at the very, very least.
After all the non-intended puns to get attention to their show (a show with MANY problems, mind, that a LOT of people (me included) only gave a look at because of Sterek gifs on their dash and the promise that a really good, not-rushed (or clichéd) m/m relationship was being developped here) we deserve respect, at least.
I’m sorry, Posey, but I really couldn’t care less about Scott. Suck it up. I like what I like, you like what you like. Fine. But I’m not being paid to watch the show. You are being paid to make it. Money, by the way, that comes from the audience you insulted, today. (Yes, because I think everyone should feel insulted, not just Sterek fans. Shaming someone for what they love is an awful thing.)
Don’t bite the hand that feeds.
Can you make an official apology for this comment?
LOL YES. This is the kind entitlement that grates on everyone that isn’t a Sterek fan. WE DEMAND AN APOLOGY. What the hell for?
You mean just like Posey’s entitlement he feels that fandom must love everything equally.
Yes this response is bitter, but Posey’s words, the fandoms response to them and the complete silence about it from Teen Wolf PR has frustrated me.
Go and understand what it means to be entitled and come back and try commenting again.
…expecting an apology when someone goes deliberately out of their way to dismiss and degrade something you’re passionate about (that isn’t even HURTING anyone) isn’t entitled. It’s called faith in humanity and human decency. Especially when it’s a professional referring to the fanbase that, at least indirectly, pays his paycheck. I’ve seen a lot of actors and actresses slammed for WAY less offensive acts than this.
If Posey (or anyone else) had used this wording about literally any other hobby (or ship), I’m pretty sure there would be more of a protest, but somehow, this environment has emerged where it’s okay to hate on sterek shippers.
And for someone on the actual show – regardless of who it is – to say something this offensive about a (substantial) part of their fanbase is not okay. Dictating how the viewers are supposed to consume the media produced is not okay.
Not when Teen Wolf has repeatedly used sterek shippers to promote their show in polls and competitions etc. and the shippers have ALWAYS responded. Turning around and calling sterek shipping “bizarre”, “weird”, and “twisted” isn’t okay. Especially not when these are slurs that have a long history of being used about anyone not identifying as cis-het and you’re talking about a non-het ship.
I don’t expect or demand an apology for any of the stuff anyone connected to Teen Wolf does, because, quite frankly, their track record isn’t good, and this is just another incident in a larger pattern and history of shaming slash shippers.
I’m sure Posey has plenty of reason to be bitter. Guess what, he’s not the only one. I’ve lived with these types of slurs, remarks and dismissals for more than a decade, but I’m not going to use derogatory language towards anyone doing it – and even if I did, it would stay between my computer screen and I, I wouldn’t voice it in public – and I’d like the same courtesy in return.
Media production isn’t really all that different from customer service, and the fans are Posey’s customers. And honestly, if I’d talked even remotely like this to any customer in any place I’ve worked, I would’ve been fired so fast my head would have spun, regardless of any excuse or how justified I felt.*
(*.Disclaimer: in case someone wants to jump on taking that the wrong way, no, I’m not saying Posey should be fired, not at all, it’s a comparison for perspective. Interviews are a part of the job, which means you put your game face on and smile, regardless of how annoying the questions are. It’s possible to dodge without offending. All jobs come with unpleasant people and tasks, and you simply do your best to endure)
“Deliberately goes out of his way”? You mean, answering a question he’s asked when a microphone is shoved in his face is “going out of his way”? No… no, I don’t think so. I am fairly certain your own anger about slurs and dismissals is making you eager to lash out — something I completely understand but you have to recognize that that isn’t a fair reaction.
When you hijack a question meant for another actor just to spit slurs, that’s going out of your way, which was the actual situation at hand. Had the question been specifically for Posey, I wouldn’t have used that word choice, but it wasn’t, it was directed at Hoechlin.
Tyler Posey has always been jealous of the attention stiles and derek has gotten from the get go. It’s his own hangup and issues he’s dealing with. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s one of the reasons coltan haynes left the show. He was good, but didn’t get the attention his ego wanted.
Tyler and his character was never the best thing about the show. Period. I watched the 1st episode of the 3rd season, and haven’t tuned in since. Tyler is the biggest turn off. And this has nothing to do with the whole Sterek thing. I’m not a sterek shipper…never have been…but I just hate when an actor tries to bash a group of people because they ship something.
Get a life Posey, or get off the show !!!
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I hope he doesn’t apologize. He never even said he disliked the pairing, the shippers, or even slashers. Why is everyone misinterpreting this as Posey throwing a hissy that people are appreciating a fanon pairing more than him? He wasn’t picking on anyone, and since people seem to be so willing to take things out of context, LET’S TALK ABOUT CONTEXT. What I gathered from Tyler Posey’s comment was that people are missing out if the only thing they give a crap about is two characters getting together over all the love and dedication that the actors and actresses put into this show. Tyler Posey has no say in what gets written, and judging by how patient and understanding he is with less than pleasant fans, he’s ‘sucked it up’ more than plenty. He’s shown more appreciation towards the viewers of Teen Wolf than any other actor on set, and if he was part of the most popular pairing on the internet, I would be willing to bet you ANYTHING that you would have known that. I ship Sterek, I adore Posey, I loathe Jeff’s carelessness, I still love Teen Wolf, but I’m seriously not seeing a problem here.
Hi, for me the problem has more to do with Posey calling Sterek “a bizarre weird twisted thing” although it’s also not a smart move to tell your audience there is a right or wrong way to watch something. (That said, I personally think anyone that thinks Sterek is the only thing TW has to offer is really missing out).
I don’t know, I guess I never saw this as much of a problem because I never viewed this ship as something light/fluffy, considering how dark the show, characters, and story lines are, and how the two characters interact (with that light hand on the shoulder scene exception that punched me right in the feels, lets be real). I understand why people are double taking at what Posey said, but I honestly believe that he’s being vilified way too much for an opinion that wasn’t really of bounds. I was cringing when I was reading the backlash, because I thought that Tyler said something incredibly horrible by the way people were talking about him, ( and the way the interviewer presented/linked to the interview was pretty misleading imo). I definitely see this situation a lot differently than you, but with that said, I honestly appreciate your point of view, and your incredibly respectful reply.
Well, it’s true. A relationship between a human 16 year old and a violent werewolf in his mid-twenties who has harmed and threatened the 16 year old several times IS BIZARRE AND TWISTED.
In the context of slash fandom/slash ships consistently being called twisted, not to mention the connotations of the word in regards to a queer relationship, what Posey said was offensive and hurtful.
And yes, most romantic relationships – particularly those in speculative fiction – are problematic. The romanticisation of abuse is definitely a huge problem. But it’s fiction, and what is fiction if not exploring fantasies that are not appropriate or appealing in the real world. Most fictional romances that are considered epic and adored by many would be abuse and/or illegal in the real world. That’s part of their appeal.
Lol you’re trying to make this an LGBT issue.
As a gay man myself and an avid gay rights supporter, it’s disappointig to see that this is what supposed allies are doing for equal representation.
This isn’t equal representation, it’s gay fetishzation, which IS a real thing and it’s what Sterek is based on, because in reality, these two characters don’t have very many interactions and when they do, they’re not exactly the most positive, and on some occasions have been violent. Hell, in a recent episode, the character Derek essentially thought Stiles was stupid. Nothing about that sounds romantic is really just a device people use for their erotic fanfiction.
Please refrain from denying and dismissing a ship just because you don’t personally see it. Pretty much every ship on this show has had problematic interactions of some sort, so if that’s a criteria, there would be very few left.
That said, gay fetishization is, of course, a real problem, and, sadly, something that probably exists in every gay ship.
But you’re ignoring the fact that a VERY large part of the sterek shipping community is, in fact, a part of GSRM (Gender Sexual and Romantic Minorities, an alternative, and for many more inclusive acronym to LGBT). I actually don’t know a single sterek shipper who isn’t, and the notion that only – or even mostly – straight women ship slash is a pervasive but erroneous myth.
And if you’re going to claim an entire ship as gay fetishization, then I’m going to assume you’ve extensively researched both fic and meta first, and that you’re equally vocal against straight males fetishizing lesbians, which, oddly enough, is a problem that rarely gets any attention comparatively, despite being much more visible in mainstream media.
If we want to talk about bizarre and twisted, look no further than the subplot of an abused teen boy who falls in love with the girl who stabbed him and left him for dead.
Excellent article. Posey can have his own opinions on things like Sterek, but the way he expressed them hurt a lot.
I shouldn’t even be surprised at this point about the way people talk about slash ships, but I really was this time. There are so many ships on the show and the canon ones are often brought together under the flimsiest of circumstances and plot, but it’s Sterek that Tyler chooses to put down.
I watch the show for many different reasons PLUS Sterek. I’m confused as to what Tyler believes is a valid reason for watching Teen Wolf. Dylan and Tyler Hoechlin who would actually be asked the Sterek question much more than Posey have always answered in a way that doesn’t pander to Sterek shippers, but also doesn’t put them down in such a negative way.
I would understand if the interview was talking about important plot or character development and then randomly asked a Sterek question. But Posey had just enthusiastically finished talking about the Scallison and Scira relationships. And it was a question that the interviewer was directing at Hoechlin.
People watch the show for all different reasons. Sometimes for only one character/actor or one pairing. But Tyler Posey didn’t call all those other shippers ships ‘bizarre, weird and twisted.’ Allisaac had no build except for one violently stabbing the other before it was canon, Stydia isn’t canon and for two seasons was obviously one-sided and little unhealthy on Stiles’ part, Jydia was emotionally abusive, Dennifer was filled with dubious consent, Scira is practically a repeating of Scallison… All of those ships had fans that weren’t put down for shipping them.
I’m just really disappointed in Posey and I don’t even know if the issue will be addressed as Jeff Davis seems to be happy if Sterek isn’t encouraged, and the Teen Wolf social media has become skilled at ignoring anything that’s a problem (as skilled as they are at starting a lot of problems). This is probably just a reactionary post on my part and when I take some time to sit back and think I may not be so angry and hurt.
But right now that’s all I am.
Seconding the well said.
Love my Pydia but did Posey miss a 35-40+ depending on how werewolves age Peter talk filthy to a seventeen year old? That is an abusive dynamic. He asked her over by hitting on her mother while checking her down the hall. I enjoy some twisted psychology…….
I would invite someone to find some between Stiles and Derek this season post changing and maturing?
……two characters who at their most hostile when Stiles wanted Derek dead to protect Scott and Derek had aggressive trust issues still protected each other because Stiles couldn’t watch him die to the wolfsbane and insert meta but Derek realized Stiles and Scott were teenagers he should be protecting not making demands on a few minutes before he sent Stiles into the hospital to oops meet his crazy uncle.
(See: Derek in shock while a teary Stiles is talking to his dad about a normal high school lacrosse game he’s lying he’ll make in order to help Derek; Derek getting his butt kicked; Derek getting captured so Scott and Jackson can escape; Derek full of arrows trying to crawl to put his body between Scott and projectiles.)
I hope someone called Posey out on this.
He spent a good portion of his time talking about how sweet Scott/Kira is (while completely bashing on Allison (and Crystal), throwing it to the side as if it was nothing, a relationship that was the whole basis of the beginning of the show and the center of Scott’s world (which comes to show how little he understands about character development), which really sucks because we all think Allison is the one who will die), and then Hoechlin gets asked a question and he jumps on it like that?
It was rude to him, even.
And his reply was as bad as we know it was. You could tell how amazingly uncomfortable it made Holland feel (I love her, bless her), as she has said she ships Sterek too, and Hoechlin had to only have a second to panic thinking how he would throw water on the fire Posey had just caused.
I know he is only 22, but really, he should know better. He should be more respectful and be thankful that he has a job and is in a show that is (until now) successful. People generally liked Scott even if he wasn’t written as a very interesting character at all, personally, at least, I liked him, and I loved how I imagined him supporting Sterek and everything around it.
Now I’m just incredibly disappointed. Way to ruin it all, Posey. Way to ruin it all.
Just here to give support and hugs to the Sterek fandom. I love you guys and think you’re awesome and your ship is awesome too. I am sorry that a lot of you are hurting right now.
We Destiel fans usually only interact with you guys in polls where we are (friendly) adversaries but I hope you know that there are many Destiel fans that are thinking of you all right now and our hearts are with you guys.
Much love to you all.
You are so sweet. It makes me much happier to know that although people outside of slash fandoms can be so hurtful, the people in slash fandom (even different slash fandoms) are supportive and kind and have a deep understanding of the hurt that is felt at comments like the ones Posey made.
Thank you and I’ll keep my fingers crossed for a good new Destiel scene for you in upcoming episodes 🙂
Dear Destiel Fan and Paul,
You guys give me the warm and fuzzies. It’s wonderful to see both my fandoms supporting each other. Oh god…I think I am shipping Fandoms now. Desterek. It’s a thing. What would an anthropomorpic Sterek and Destiel look like? Excuse me, I need to write some fanfic! 😛
I will ship this until my dying breath. Destiel and Sterek may have butted heads, but fandoms always come together during another fandom’s time of need. Desterek!
I can’t believe we’re still at the point in fandom where it’s okay to crap on slash fans. Yes we should be respectful and not mean to Tyler Posey for expressing his opinion, but why can’t he afford the same respect to us? Sterek shippers have been appealed to every time the show wants something. Tyler Posey and the show each got individual Teen Choice awards the year that TW social media released the Dylan/Hoechlin ship video. Tyler Posey and Tyler Hoechlin were put on the cover of TV Guide after TW social media tried to get votes with a normal ‘vote!’ post and then decided to appeal to the Sterek fandom by saying they’ll release the outtakes of the ship video if we voted. We did and Posey and Hoechlin were on the cover. Posey made sure never to say anything about Sterek then. Very disappointed in his lack of respect for a fandom that has done so much good for the show he’s on.
I love your article. You deal it with level head and understanding. I hope a lot of people read your article.
This has been brewing for a while with Posey. Go back and watch the video of the SDCC of 2013. Watch Posey’s reaction every time the fans scream for Dylan or when yet another question is directed at Dylan. His face stays carefully blank with none of the usual excitedness we see with Posey. It’s very un-Posey like. This is barely about Sterek, but it’s not like Posey can take it out on his friend. There are many more people watching the show only for Stiles and Dylan than there are people watching it for Sterek. Posey doesn’t talk to them the way he did the Sterek fandom.
If Posey want to address the real ACTUAL reason parts of the audience are only watching for certain things, he needs to have a serious discussion with Jeff Davis. It’s Jeff that’s made the season center on Stiles. It’s Jeff that rains down praise on Dylan O’Brien every moment he gets while ignoring the rest of the cast (watch both the 2011 and 2013 comic con panels. 2011 – Jeff interrupts Colton Haynes giving an answer as to why Teen Wolf has been popular and Jeff says ‘It’s because other shows don’t have Dylan O’Brien’. He says that with the rest of the cast there. In 2013 he cut in to tell a story of how wonderful Dylan is because he has a good heart and kind to the cast and crew. Posey was sitting right beside him and no kind words were said about him. All Posey got out of Jeff was being made fun of for getting more tattoos. And that’s only comic con. Jeff’s interviews and DVD commentaries are full of his adoration of Dylan).
It’s Jeff that has caused fans to give up watching the show for logical plot or continuity and why Teen Wolf fandom is full of insta-shipping. Posey picked on the people that it was easiest for him to do. Fandom. When it’s Jeff, Posey only makes vague put downs like this post discusses http://swingsetindecember.tumblr.com/post/74552636294/sophielostandfound-rubato-alphaunni
Sterek fandom is now being bombarded with hateful messages about how twisted, weird and bizarre we are and all the cast think it but only Posey was brave enough to say it. That’s what we get to deal with. Posey gave us that gift when the writers of the show or Dylan’s popularity should be the focus of his discontent. As Jeff Davis said in that horrible anti-slash article with other showrunners “Most fans I meet have never even heard of Sterek”. If we’re that insignificant why is Posey under the belief that we are the sole cause of the audience watching the show ‘wrong’?
I’m interested to find out what’s Posey’s ‘right’ way to watch Teen Wolf.
“If we’re that insignificant why is Posey under the belief that we are the sole cause of the audience watching the show ‘wrong’?” Posey was asked about Sterek, and he said if you pay more attention to Sterek than the show, then you’re watching it wrong. He did not say over-the-top Sterek shippers are the ONLY people who watch the show wrong. Lots of people watch the show wrong: people who think Peter Hale is a sassy harmless antihero, people who think Lydia needs to get off her high horse already and date Stiles, people who focus on Derek’s pain while ignoring the things he has done wrong, etc. But he was asked about Sterek and he answered about Sterek. Sterek is not insignificant, you have a lot of influence and you know that. You’re the majority. You can change the fact that Scott and Posey are ignored and misunderstood…if you care enough to.
Why does a slash fandom have to make sure a lead actor in a show feels adequately loved? Posey and Scott gets lots of love in fandom. We voted hard to get Posey a Teen Choice Award and also the TV Guide magazine cover. You’ve obviously not been on tumblr because it’s starting to be a trend right now that Sterek shippers are blaming themselves for this and what Posey said was deserved because we didn’t love him enough. He gets paid. He didn’t have to call Sterek ‘bizarre, weird and twisted’ for any reason. That’s the part that most people take issue with. Crystal Reed has had to deal with so much crap from fandom and she’s never called out a section of it.
Did you watch the interview? He was asked about other ships beforehand and answered the questions happily. It’s only when it got to Sterek that he said we’re watching the show wrong if we’re watching for it.
The show doesn’t owe me anything just because I ship Sterek, and I don’t owe a celebrity anything for not loving him as much as he thinks we should. It’s not Sterek shippers that are pushing him out at the moment, it’s Dylan fans who watch only for him and want nothing but to watch Stiles all the time.
Posey’s been asked about a lot of things in interviews, all those things you listed like Peter and Stydia, but he’s never ever made the fans of them feel bad for watching the show only for that reason.
Yes, I have a tumblr and yes, I watched the interview. And he has a point. He’s not saying you should feel bad if you ship Sterek. He’s saying you shouldn’t focus ONLY on Sterek. You are not watching the show the way it is meant to be watched if you only care about Sterek and nothing else. It’s sad. You’re lucky if you have only seen love for Scott and Posey, because I’ve seen Sterek BNFs calling him boring, whitewashing him, stealing his traits to give them to Stiles in fic, writing meta that misinterprets his character, etc. Maybe if you watched the show for the whole cast and the whole plot instead of just Sterek, you would see the glaring differences between Sterek fandom’s idea of the show and what the show is actually meant to be. BTW, I don’t hate Sterek. I just understand the rest of the show is more important.
Hi, sorry to barge in but I wanted to add that most people are more upset about Posey calling Sterek “a bizarre weird twisted thing” than the fact that he said people that anyone that pays “more attention to Sterek than the show isn’t watching the show for the right reasons.” (Although, from a business perspective it’s really not a good idea to tell your customers how they can and can’t view a product). This is especially problematic because the language he employed is language that is often used to dismiss/insult slash fandom (and also queer relationships in general). While Posey made his remarks about a specific ship in a specific fandom – they were not stated in a vacuum and therefore take on all the problematic connotations that are connected to a problematic society.
Here’s the thing, while Sterek might be in a position of power within the Teen Wolf fandom – when looking at the relationship between Sterek fans and Tyler Posey, Posey is the one with all the power. He’s the one the general audience will listen to, and his opinion will automatically be valued above that of slash shippers. That is why what he said was problematic.
I don’t understand why people can’t watch a show for any reason they want to. I don’t want to watch the show for the whole cast. I can’t stand that the twins are left alive and trying to be redeemed. I don’t like watching female villains being killed but male villains being left alive, or the heap of women and POCs get killed off.
What should I be focused on? That Boyd and Erica were killed and the show glossed over any emotional impact? That in no possible way does the timeline make any sense? That if I focus on the plot I would notice that most of things that have happened in the show make absolutely no sense at all? That Jeff can’t be bothered to put any effort in to explaining anything about Cora? That we have to pretend that Paige makes any sense with previous canon (Stiles not being sure of why Derek had changed since Cora had last saw him was plain dumb) especially since Jeff has stated in interviews that the different eye-colors was originally just like the light-sabres in Star Wars and that they just had random colors.
I don’t want to focus on stretches of episodes that had Allison and Lydia relegated to being offsiders for male characters. I don’t want to focus on Isaac being abused yet again and the show never dealing with it except jokingly.
I know what the show is meant to be, and I know what the show could be if Jeff Davis stopped writing scripts at the last minute (which he admitted to in the last episode of Wolf Watch he was on). If anything, focusing on Sterek has had me have a more positive response to the show when I would otherwise because their progress from Season 1 to the end of 3a has been well written. I’m not looking for them to be canon. I honestly just find their interactions and chemistry the strength of the show.
And I have seen some Scott/Posey hate. Many of it is because the show continues to gloss over his more problematic character traits. “Stealing his traits to give them to Stiles in fic” I’ve often asked what that means and what i’ve been told is that fic often has Stiles looking after people and being brave. Which Stiles has been in canon. Just look at the scene with Jackson. Stiles hated him and still looked after him and dressed his naked body. Scott allowed him to escape because he was distracted with Allison. That doesn’t make Scott bad, but it shows that fandom glosses over Scott’s badder traits while focusing on Stiles’ meaner ones. People interpret the characters differently.
I also doubt that Posey said the things he did because he read some negative meta. He’s not reading any of it. If he did he’s also been seeing the very positive Scott stuff. From what I can see Posey said this because he’s not being treated like the main character. Which is fine because it would be frustrating. But that’s not just Sterek shippers. Stiles fans only watch for him. Derek fans only watch for him. Some people only watch for Allison. Dylan has a much larger fanbase now and many of his fans want to see and know only about Stiles. Posey gets asked about Stiles all the time and he wouldn’t say to Stiles fans that it’s wrong to watch the show just for him.
Posey went for the easiest group that already gets heaps of hate in fandom and that was the Sterek shippers. He doesn’t get a free pass for that.
Posey wasn’t asked the question though… Hoechlin was and Posey jumped at it like he had been waiting to spew those words for awhile… I started out not even being mad at Posey over this but the more I see the divisiveness he has caused in the fandom the more I am actually getting mad.
Precisely! The question wasn’t aimed at Posey he had absolutely no reason to answer. He broke his neck to spill his vitriol which seems to have been brewing for some time.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to express it in a reasonable manner.
I’m sorry that he feels overshadowed by Dylan O’Brien
I’m sorry that a non canon pairing attracts the biggest fan base and he’s not part of it
I’m sorry he’s not mature/professional enough to realize that central characters are not always the best loved in the show and perhaps he needs to reconsider his career choice
I’m sorry he embarrassed Holland Roden and put Tyler Hoechlin on the spot
I’m sorry he comes across bitter, immature and juvenile, I’m sure he wouldn’t want to appear that way
I’m sorry he didn’t engage his brain before speaking, or spoke at all
I’m sorry that every interview I’ve seen of him he comes across as enthusiastically self-centered and cut across other stars speaking, this isn’t the first time
I’m sorry Jeff Davis appears to praise Dylan and ignore Posey
I’m sorry he seems to have found it necessary to insult/ offend/ hurt a good number of the fans who watch this show, keep it on air and him in work
I’m just sorry it happened.
I don’t like or dislike Tyler Posey, I certainly object to being told to send him love because his feelings are hurt. I object to being told why I should watch a show which is frankly a mess with poor continuity, time lines and throw away stories and characters. STEREK shippers are sometimes over enthusiastic and have been told over and over STEREK will not become canon and need to just accept that, it doesn’t matter. They certainly do not deserve Posey’s vitriol or blame themselves for his lack of maturity.
Looks like Sterek fandom has decided to blame themselves. My dash is now inundated with posts that we did this by not giving Posey and Scott enough love.
Never mind the fact that Posey is a grown working actor who knew the effect of what he was saying judging by the reactions of Holland and Hoechlin.
Sterek shippers have now made it a mission to show how much Posey is loved. He speaks to us hurtfully and this is our response. I’m all for no hate but this is just screaming of slash fandoms once again accepting we’re ‘wrong’ and must make others feel better because of our existence.
I liked your article a whole lot but Sterek fandom blaming itself now is making me bitter.
I don’t think the Sterek fandom should blame itself – because as I said a lot of this has to do with established ideas about slash in general. BUT I also think that Posey is under-appreciated and he obviously does have a misconception that ALL Sterek fans don’t like him (not without reason because there are some very loud very awful people out there). If we can do something to dismiss that misconception then that’s not a bad thing.
It’s like this, I don’t want to reward Posey for saying hurtful things but at the same time I do want him to know that we don’t hate him. In fact we love him a lot.
I’m kind of feeling like maybe we should organize a fanbook/project to show that Scott/Posey is important to our enjoyment of the show as Sterek shippers. I love the dynamic between Scott, Stiles, and Derek. The relationship between Scott and Stiles is absolutely beautiful and one of my favorite parts of the show, and I’m enjoying seeing Scott and Derek finally interacting as allies.
If we did run a support campaign, I think it would be important that before we show it to Posey we preface it by explaining that his words were hurtful and while we don’t support what he *said*, we still love and support *him.* Sterek fans are still fans of the show, and it’s not up to anyone to dictate what is a right or wrong reason to watch something.
I think that would be a great idea AFTER he apologizes. Regardless of why (tired, jealous etc.) he said those things, and used those words, I think the first move has to come from him. I mean how often do you get insulted by someone and you are the one that tries to apologize and make it alright? I’m all for moving on and forgiving him, as this doesn’t seem like the TPosey we’ve seen before, but he really should apologize, at least for his choice of words.
There’s been no reason given why Posey is now insulting Sterek. Fandom has automatically put all the blame on something the Sterek fandom must have done. Just like all the pre-emptive posts people made about hate being sent to Posey when in reality his twitter was receiving nothing but love and it was Sterek fandom that was receiving extreme hate. And just like Zelda Williams received hate with comments like ‘you know sterek shippers hate you’ and Sterek fandom was blamed for this. When it was only fans assuming Sterek fandom was angry and most of the hate was from Dylan fangirls annoyed that ANY girl was kissing him.
It’s tiring that Sterek is accused and convicted of all the bad things in the fandom. There’s more talk in tags of what people are assuming Sterek is hating on, rather than actual hate from the Sterek fandom.
I love Scott, but these comments have soured me on Tyler Posey. Let’s see if he backtracks.
I really don’t know what to do or how to feel about this. Using the words “bizarre, weird, and twisted” is not an acceptable way to address a queer pairing. All of those words have been used to put down queer people and they have an extremely negative history to them. What is also not okay is the anti-Sterek fans embracing this wholeheartedly. It’s okay to agree with Posey that Sterek is an odd ship, or that you shouldn’t watch TW for Sterek. But I’m seeing people supporting his choice of language and claiming that there’s absolutely no negative or homophobic implications to it. I absolutely believe that Posey is NOT homophobic, but that doesn’t change the implications of his words. Intent =/= implications.
Teen Wolf has encouraged Sterek shippers consistently. A few examples: the “We’re on a ship!” video, the “vote or we’ll sink this ship [Sterek]!” campaign, dangling the bloopers from the Sterek video as incentive to win the TV guide fan favorite poll, the Sour Wolf valentine, tagging gifsets from the episodes as “Sterek,” Jeff Davis saying he could “be convinced,” Hoechlin and Dylan holding hands and saying there was a “50/50 chance on this show,” Holland Roden saying Sterek was “too great not to be,” and so much more.
So yeah, queer viewers like myself are going to be delighted that FOR ONCE a queer ship is getting attention, and we’re going to be a little hopeful, and we’re going to engage wholeheartedly, because queerness is something near and dear to us. And yeah, it’s sad and awful that Scott/Posey aren’t getting the same amount of positive attention, and that there are a lot of people putting down the character and actor in loud and offensive ways that are rampant with both racist intent and implications. I’ve been furious at how the official marketing for 3B has focused almost exclusively on Dylan O’Brien, because while he’s my favorite actor and Stiles is my favorite character, HE IS NOT THE MAIN CHARACTER. But that doesn’t mean it’s totally okay for Posey to go off on us like this, because it’s not entirely OUR fault. It’s also the fault of the official TW media.
At the beginning of 3A I thought it might be nice to organize a “Sterek loves Scott” campaign to prove that loving Sterek and loving Scott are not mutually exclusive, as fandom often claims it is. Now I’m wishing I’d gone ahead and done it. Maybe then Posey wouldn’t be so bitter, maybe the antis wouldn’t be so vitriolic, maybe, maybe…. Maybe it’s time to come together as Sterek fans and show Posey that while his choice of words weren’t okay, we still love him and we are still fans of this show.
Posey ships Scisaac and Scackson. This isn’t about queer vs. straight and it’s not about what you ship, it’s about how you ship it. Loving Sterek and loving Scott are not mutually exclusive, Posey didn’t say they are. But most Sterek fans write fic and meta that erases or mischaracterizes Scott, or endorse other people doing it when they see it instead of calling it out.
“But most Sterek fans write fic and meta that erases or mischaracterizes Scott, or endorse other people doing it when they see it instead of calling it out.”
Hence why I think it’s a good idea for Sterek fans to band together and show their support for Scott??? I’m a little confused about what you’re saying here. No, it’s not about “queer vs straight” but this is not taking place in a vacuum. If someone expresses support for one queer ship and puts down another using words that are used to attack queer people, it’s still problematic.
He used words to describe a ship that consists of one guy threatening and demeaning the other accurately. Also, even though I’ve been on the receiving end of those words for being queer, when Posey said them, I didn’t assume he was attacking me, despite my identity and despite my ships. It might have something to do with the fact that I don’t watch this show just for a pairing.
Hi, what you just said could be used describe any number of canon pairings that are constantly discussed within the media without insulting fandom. I’m not saying that is no problematic – the romanticisation of abuse if a BIG PROBLEM but it’s not exclusive to slash fandom.
Also says “I am this minority and I was not offended therefore it is not offence” is not a legitimate defence. Intent does not negate offence.
I agree, it isn’t exclusive to slash. However, no one ever said it was. He just happened to comment on a pair that isn’t exactly healthy canonwise, and doesn’t make his opinion any less valid.
No, it’s wasn’t really meant to be taken as a defence of Posey. Intent certainly doesn’t negate offence but this was not disparaging towards slashers, minorities, or even Sterek shippers. If anything. If this came from Jeff’s mouth? I probably would be pissed.
And yet, he has singled out sterek. There is quite possibly not a single ALIVE ship, canon or otherwise, on this show that can confidently be classified as healthy and without serious issues. But Posey talks warmly of other ships, yet bashes sterek.
It’s very hard not to take that as disparaging comments specifically targeting sterek shippers.
That’s why it’s called FAN FIC. You can write what you like. Some of the characterization and mythology (like MALE werewolves getting pregnant) leaves me cold and frankly bemused, but why the hell should I ‘call’ someone out on it? They are not professional writers (though many could teach Davis a thing or two) it is for fun, enjoyment and it’s worth remembering it’s ALL fiction. They can write what they like, it’s called AU and ‘transformative works’ and if people don’t like it, simple, don’t read it!
Queerness is something a lot of Sterek fans claim to be so dear of yet they couldn’t care less about the actual queer character on the show, Danny, or his romantic relationships which are actually canon and not just some fantasy. It’s so transparent.
Jenn – slash fandom’s exploitation of queer rights is seriously problematic (see: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/romano-slashtivism-teen-wolf-fandom-sterek/). But that does not negate that slash fandom does have a large queer community (particularly queer women) who enjoy subverting the traditionally masculine hero by reading him as part of a queer romance. The acknowledgement of this reading in a way that is not dismissive can be a form of validation for queer fans, which is I think what Bliz was trying to say.
Umm. Dude. I am queer.
Danny has been so sidelined that when asked how it felt to be part of the Teen Wolf cast Kahuanui said, I think it was, “You’ll have to ask them.”
(1) Danny’s primary character trait, although we know he is a techie, is that he is “gay”
(2) Me, as a lesbian, and my closest gay and bisexual friends don’t look or live anything like Danny. Stiles and Derek look like us and live like us. ‘LBGTQ culture’ isn’t a part of their lives. I get a little frustrated with nods in that direction passing as representation.
(3) There is an epic difference between two characters who develop an organic relationship over seasons and fall in love and what we as LBGTQ folks are given on television.
(4) This isn’t just about LBGTQ folks. We also have a massive culture of women of ever stripe who enjoy stories about two men, these two men, falling in love. I fall back on Romance having the biggest market share of both the print and e- markets and being dismissed, referred to as trash, etc., in other words…even when women’s sexual expression is a market force, as it’s been made clear above already is the case here, women’s sexual expression is dismissed as illegitimate(, not equal to LBGTQ interests, etc.)
(5) Sterek is not necessarily about queer advocacy, BUT the two demographics are not mutually exclusive.
An individual’s degree of interest in Danny and his plotline is irrelevant. Personally I’m not very interested in it as it’s been treated superficially, I don’t identify with Danny to start with, and Stiles and Derek have ranges of the Rocky Mountains more chemistry than Danny and Ethan in, and only in, my opinion.
I don’t love Posey and I don’t see why I should? He’s an actor and as such he will be in loads of shows where he’s not the darling, even if he’s the so called star. He needs to toughen up, get over himself and his Narcissistic attitude and suck it up. Do you imagine Dylan or JR Bourne or Linden Ashby acting like this? It’s called professionalism and maturity. And no I don’t ship STEREK and I watch for all the wonderful actors other than Posey. Coach is just….wonderful.
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I will be changing the name “janet” to “Alexis” so that people are aware that you are the same person. Thank you.
eh, you know, i’m a slasher myself, and very fond of sterek, but I’m not squicked by what he said, and I do find myself sympathising in spite of myself.
It’s HIS show, he’s the star, and he, as a young professional actor, is engaged with canon, not fanon. Teen Wolf ISN’T the Big Gay Derek-and-Stiles show, but you sure as shit wouldn’t know that from tumblr or the A03. Posey views the show purely through the lens of actual canon characterisation, and in order to DO HIS JOB, to be Scott, he needs to be invested in one consistent canonical reading of the characters and relationships. Slash is the antithesis of this. gotta feel pretty bizarre.
So…really, he’s right, if undiplomatic – fanfic, and noncanonical shipping, IS transformation of the text. it’s distortion, re-imagining, remixing – it’s ignoring, dismissing and distorting the work posey and o’brian and hoechlin are actually doing, and using it for our own ends. it’s death of the author stuff – but, sure, if you’re the creator in question, it’s got to be kind of frustrating, both on your own behalf and on your friends’ behalf.
From Posey’s perspective, surely it’s not a million miles removed from the dickmunch journo who said to Posey ’So – you’re Hispanic, but Scott is ’All American’, right?’ Having these other interpretations of his work shoved in his face has to be a bit galling.
i mean, hell yes, I am THERE for transformative works based on any damn text, and I am Go Team Queering The Text too. But trying to force the creator of the source text to give you their seal of approval? Pointless and rude, imho.
If you then go talk to the creator of the source text, whether novelist or actor or screenwriter or whatever, i understand them feeling weird and creeped out by being fetishised or reinterpreted (or, in posey’s case, marginalised all to hell whilst his friends are fetishised and reinterpreted).
…eh, if he’d been homophobic, I’d feel differently, maybe, but i think the dude has a point. I DON’T come to the text just to drink the Kool Aid – I think Davis has some great stuff in place, and other stuff that’s slipshod, contradictory or not my cup if tea. i am ALL OVER twisting the text.
…and, yeah, let’s be honest: I also creepily objectify the living shit out of assorted characters and actors in a way that would certainly make them uncomfortable.
i think it’s unkind putting any actor in the position of having to make nice about fannish objectification and noncanonical shipping, to be honest. asking an actor of colour who’s the star of the show to comment on the runaway popularity of sexual fantasies about two of his pasty white & canonically straight supporting actors…i mean, seriously, the guy should not HAVE to worry about coddling our sensibilities. fandom blatantly doesn’t give a shit about coddling the actors’ sensibilities. Dude is putting his all into a show about the trials and tribulationd of Scott McCall, but fandom is more interested in reading about Derek Hale sexing up Scott’s bff.
This sums up how I feel quite nicely.
I understand where your coming from but the thing is this is his Job. He is an actor and being an actor involves selling a product, the product in this instance is Teen Wolf. Ask ANYONE in marketing and they will tell you that it’s not a good idea to insult part of your customer base and tell them they’re using the product wrong. Who cares if they’re using it wrong if they’re willing to pay for it.
I also got to say I’m don’t agree with this “asking an actor of colour who’s the star of the show to comment on the runaway popularity of sexual fantasies about two of his pasty white & canonically straight supporting actors”. While internalised racism is a problem within slash fandom and in the Teen Wolf fandom particularly, slash fandom is really not just about sexual fantasies – that’s exactly the attitude that I am trying to fight against. That’s the kind of assumption that leads the media to use slash fandom as a way to make actors uncomfortable – which was not it’s intention. Which is exactly the kind of conversation I am trying to evoke with this article.
That said, actors being ask about ships is hardly a new thing – even being asked about non-canon pairings is really not unheard of, but as soon as it’s slash people suddenly think it’s something that shouldn’t be talked about. Sterek might not have been their intention but it’s something that a lot of people love and while they are under no obligation to cater to the fandom’s desires (and I really don’t want them to) calling it “a bizarre weird twisted thing” is incredibly rude. And remember this is not happening in a vacuum, Posey’s words might have been about a specific ship for specific reasons but they will be considered in context with ALL the other times similar things have been said about slash fandom (or queer relationships in general).
Also, if you watch the interview he wasn’t even asked the question directly. While it was posed to the group it was quick clearly directed at Hoechlin and Posey jumped in specifically to say that he thought it was “a bizarre weird twisted thing”.
I understand why Posey is frustrated (I desperately want Scott McCall to get the love and respect he deserves) and I still love both him and Scott McCall but I am still going to call him out if I think he said something that offended/upset a bunch of people that look up to him.
dude, I have been reading and writing and podficcing slash for at least 15 years; you really don’t need to lesson me in what slash is. In fact, if you’d like the extended version of My Thoughts About Slash, you can find it here:
tl;dr: I know slash encompasses many things, from hard core alpha-on-teen-boy knotting fic to cuddly domestic curtain-buying trips to Ikea, but FUNDAMENTALLY slash is always about us choosing to reinterpret a canonically platonic samesex relationship as a sexual one. Even if the fic in question involves nothing racier than domestic grocery shopping, or wide-eyed USTy pining, it’s still concentrating on a relationship, and upon portraying it as sexually charged, rather than platonic. (By all means substitute the word ’romantic’ or ’erotic’ if you’re more comfortable with them.) I did not equate all slash with porn, although that seems to be what you’re reacting to – but it’s disingenuous to pretend that sex/romance ISN’T a huge part of slash. we let our freak flags fly, and that is awesome, but still must be pretty damn weird for the actors.
I think, moreover, that one has to stretch quite hard to build any argument for Sterek’s popularity being motivated by anything beyond an enthusiasm for the charms of the actors, their perceived chemistry and the characters’ engaging backstories. In discussing Star Trek, SGA or the vast majority of other fannish texts, we can talk honestly about slash as being a needful queering of an artificially heterocentric, if not outright homophobic, text. TW, however, has always had canonically gay character(s), and has presented us with a blessedly unhomophobic world. We don’t need to queer this text. If TW fandom were interested in celebrating queer characters, Danny would be at the heart of the bulk of the fic. Instead, we are all over the two hot (canonically straight*) white boys. (And I do think that’s more because the characters & actors are pure fannish catnip [very Elizabeth/Darcy meets McShep, but with added abs and jailbaity hotness] than because of overt racism, but I’m not wholly comfortable insisting racism isn’t playing a part in the fact that a show with an adorable POC protagonist and a smoking hot POC supporting character who is CANONICALLY GAY [and a jock, and a computer geek] is thoroughly dominated by the two-white-dudes pairing. particularly given the number of fics I’ve encounteted where Boyd is also magically erased from canon.)
Sterek is appealing as hell, but it’s pretty much empty calorie fapbait – pure self indulgence, like a pot of Haagen Dazs. It delivers a drop kick to a lot of our favourite bullet-proof narrative kinks – the snark, the combativeness, the slamming-up-against-walls, the EPIC levels of angsty backstory, hurt/comfort…don’t get me wrong, I am ALL OVER that shit, but I think you will be hard pressed to build any argument that Sterek is about anything more profound or politically significant than “two great tastes that taste great together!”
And, yes, Posey’s an actor. He’s NOT a salesman or a marketing specialist, he’s an actor. I do a fair bit of acting myself – hell, I’m typing this in a rehearsal, come to that. And, honestly, I would rather writers, actors and artists were allowed to respond to questions about their work with honesty and integrity than have them forced to parrot some glib marketing bullshit. He’s frustrated, understandably, that a hefty chunk of the audience is ignoring the A plots he & his colleagues are working on, in favour of squeeing over an imaginary romance between two of the supporting cast.
His response is undiplomatic, sure, but, god, it’s not unreasonable. I mean, there’s a limit to how much i can pity young straight dudes for feeling frustrated at not being taken seriously, and feeling weird about fappish objectification of the female gaze – but, still, I have totally had that sense of ’Oh, FFS…’ at receiving feedback for something i worked hard on which shows the reader has missed the point i was trying to make – like they’re invested in hating on a character, or they think there should be more porn, or different porn, or whatever.
So – yeah, it’s a bit disappointing he spoke thus, but i know that feel. and, sure, the classy path is to bite your tongue, but I know i haven’t always managed, and i can understand him finding this wearisome after 3 years. (And, yes, I imagine there’s at least a measure of sour grapes in there, over the fact that Dylan & Stiles are SO popular – he’s only human, and 22, and I would find it hard to remain gracious indefinitely in those circumstances.)
i do not for a moment think he is homophobic, and i don’t think he owes fandom an apology. i disagree with the abstract notion that there is a “right way” to enjoy a text, but i definitely understand why any artist/writer/actor might feel that way about their work, and i don’t think he’s out of line.
(*as a queer chick myself, i think there is a HUGE weight of evidence implying Stiles is bi, and if Jeff doesn’t go there eventually I shall be thoroughly disappointed, but so far Stiles has only been shown in relationships with girls. Everyone is totally chilled about gayness, and this is not a show where it’s highly plausible that people are hiding in the closet. So far, in canon, he’s been depicted as straight, as has Derek.)
I’m not suggesting that we shy away from the sex – that’s a HUGE part of it. But come on, Posey is a grown man who is paid to do a job, which garner’s him a significant amount of power. As someone involved in the Sterek fandom I could understand that his comments come in the context of a problematic group of fans and increasing frustration on Posey’s part, but what about all the people watching that interview that have no idea of that context? All they are seeing is someone that is well liked saying that the thing they like is bizarre and twisted – AND in the fact that he used “twisted” in relation to a same sex pairing.
Sure creators get frustrated when people misinterpret the things they wrote but the author is dead, if you chose to enter into the creative field there is no way to force people to read things the way you want them to and if ANYONE – writers, actors, bands – comes out and tell their fans that they loving something wrong then I would be saying something similar.
Everyone keeps treated the relationship between TBPT (and actors/celebrities) as an equal relationship. It’s not. Posey has all the power in this. He’s the one people listen to, his words will be given weight and validity. He doesn’t need me (or anyone) to write an article explaining why he’s write and why his words should not be considered defensive because that is the default. The majority already assume that Posey is in the right.
I’ve been monitoring the responses on Twitter and Tumblr since the interview was releases and while there was a small number of people that used his works as an excuse to send hate most people are either staunchly defending Posey or respectfully discussing how much his words hurt. There is an overwhelming number of people that are blaming themselves for Posey’s words, like they didn’t give him enough love so now he hates them. That’s just really upsetting.
It doesn’t matter how frustrated he was, what he said was rude and it offended a lot of people – particularly people that look up to and admire him. That’s not cool and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with calling him on that.
Fayjay, please refrain from making sweeping generalizations that erases asexuality and asexual shippers. Slash isn’t always about sexual tension, and there IS, in fact, an alive and healthy (albeit small) ace!sterek community. And even in stories that aren’t explicitly ace, there are a LOT of fics that are about emotional comfort and growth, where sexual tension plays little-to-no part in things.
As for the whole self-blame thing sterek shippers are doing, I’m DEEPLY uncomfortable with it, because honestly, blaming yourself and saying you didn’t LOVE someone enough when they hurt you? Sounds uncomfortably like… well, a reaction to abuse. Which kind of (sadly) doesn’t surprise me, with how slash and sterek shippers are treated.
Not to mention that rushing to his defense and offering support means condoning and agreeing with what he said. It doesn’t matter what your intentions are, if you rush to support someone who’s said or done something offensive, you are saying they’re right, that their actions are okay – and even a good thing. There is no world in which Posey’s statement – especially his word choice – is a GOOD thing.
And it’s not my job to buffer Posey’s ego. It is, however, his job to make the show a positive force in the fans’ lives, and he has failed miserably at that.
I don’t think I’d call Tyler H pasty white and it’s insulting to Dylan. Tyler P an say/think what he likes, I don’t care but damn if ANYONE is going to dictate to me why I should watch a show. And knickers in a twist because he’s not the show’s darling? He needs to grow up. He may be the central character and star in name, but it’s in name only, Ask the biggest fan base!
I’m only criticizing the words Tyler used to convey his message. I ship Sterek but I’ve seen so much hate for Scott McCall and Tyler Posey and it’s atrocious. People love to bash, white-wash, villify, and erase Scott/Posey and it’s almost always because they have a bias towards Stiles, Derek, and/or Sterek. I agree that his words were ableist but I don’t disagree with his point because I know where it’s coming from. People are taking this personal because it seems like he’s ship-shaming and making a general statement about people who watch the show simply for sterek but that’s not it. His point is if you ignore every character, the plot, and even the actors and you send hate and you spew garbage simply because you’re biased, you’re watching for the wrong reason. You can watch the show for Sterek, hell you can watch the show for just for Posey, but don’t dismiss all the other (wonderful) aspects that make the show up and don’t act as if Sterek or Posey any single aspect of the show is the most important thing on the show that makes or breaks it.
Also @Bliz, this is in part Jeff’s fault but also the Sterek fandom’s fault. For Jeff and his queerbaiting with the “we’re on a ship!” and dangling stiles’ maybe-could-be-bisexuality in our faces constantly. Also for the Sterek fandom being so adamant on thinking the ship is the true representation of all queer folk when we’ve got Danny who isn’t even properly utilized. You don’t need a ship for queer representation, all you need is that queer character and a great story line. Which could’ve been Danny but look at that.
I just feel like people should think more about why Posey even said what he did and reevaluate some things. (Also why is no one talking about Holland’s transphobic comment????? Talk more about that.)
Hey I agree that someone should be talking about what Holland said – that is not my area of expertise (I write about slash fandom in case you hadn’t guess). I agree with your comment I just want to clarify something that a lot of people seem to be confused about.
Sterek is a powerhouse with the Teen Wolf fandom. In fandom and fandom communities like Tumblr, Sterek wields A LOT of power. BUT outside of the fandom subculture the Sterek fandom (or any fandom in general has very little power). The creators, the actors, the networks – those people are in the position of power and we need to stop talking about the relationship likes it’s an equal one.
In any situation the fans are the ones that lose. The general public will see and trust Tyler Posey’s comments, they’re not going to seek out slash fandom’s opinions. A bunch of people are going to use this as an excuse further insult and dismiss slash fandom and that’s the problem.
I haven’t seen people claiming Sterek is the “true representation” of all queer folk, but that’s probably because I’m VERY picky about who I follow on tumblr and I don’t tend to check tags. Most of the folks I follow are queer, so it makes sense that I’m going to see the TW fandom through a filtered lens. I do think it would be amazing for representation to have a main character’s coming out story, but I think it’s also important to have characters who are introduced and established as queer, like Danny. Since season 1, I’ve been wishing Danny would ascend to main character status. I think fans would respond really positively, what with the whole #MoreDanny thing.
I don’t even have a problem with Posey’s MESSAGE, I just have a problem with how he said it. He’s absolutely not obligated to ship Sterek, or to care about Sterek in any way. If he had just stuck with “bizarre and weird” I think things would have been okay and people wouldn’t have been hurt. It’s “twisted” that’s really problematic, because that word has a history as a homophobic slur. I agree with your assessment that what Posey was trying to say was fans shouldn’t hyper-focus on one aspect of the show and hate everything else. Unfortunately, his phrasing did not express that sentiment.
And yeah, Holland’s comment was just… uggggh.
I didn’t see how Roden’s comment was transphobic. That’s totally personal. He asked if Lydia was becoming more manly and she commented on Lydia legitimately transistioning. If anything that’s a degree of recognizing transexuality’s existance in the course of a conversation that’s, to me, unusual. (Also so far I haven’t seen this mentioned except as derailing-aura’d side note, so I’m further skeptical. I haven’t seen anyone who’s thrown it in the ring actually discuss it.)
I don’t see why sterek shippers should even be concern about showing love to Scott or TylerP to be honest. They are sterek shippers for a reason and that is Stiles & Derek. Not Scott or Tyler Posey.
I don’t get why shippers are blaming themselves for not showing TylerP’s character (Scott) enough love. Tyler has no right to tell us why and how we need to watch the show. To be honest the main reason I even watch the show is because of Stiles. Heck I even like Lydia more than I like Scott.
I get that he must be tired of always talking about Sterek in interviews. I get that he is annoyed that side characters are overshadowing him, but the way he handled it was just wrong. Poor choice of words, especially when talking about a queer ship.
You ask the opinion of one of the biggest bullies of the Sterek fandom? Her handle is OTHERBULLY1 I’m just baffled
Well I hardly see what that has to do with anything. I’m pretty open about what I think of the Sterek fandom, despite being a hardcore Sterek shippers myself. Are you trying to say that my willingness to criticize Sterek and the Serek fandom somehow negates the validity of my feelings on this subject?
Hi, I stand by my decision to include otherbully1 in the post – she made an interesting post that presented a valid opinion in regards to the topic I was discussing and I don’t see what he name has to do with that. Thanks.
I thought the show itself was supposed to be a bizarre and twisted thing that the cast was hoping not to be judged for. I find that the show is its own fetish despite anti-sterek fans complaining that sterek fans should filter their fetishized minds. It’s called Teen Wolf.. it’s filled with unrealistic developments and a horrendous amount of sexual emphasis. I don’t understand why the world emphasizes so much on sexual attraction anyways, people seem to think love and sex are the same thing when love should be self sustaining. I thought sterek would be the right representation because it wasn’t built on that, I thought it was the only ship that was going somewhere. And that was a pretty insensitive thing for Tyler to say for a show that has a lot to lose (whether teasing or not). Didn’t Sterek fans win most of Teen Wolf’s fame? But they only seem to be ridiculed for it. Maybe there will be a reward but it seems to be a lot of cruel jokes and judgment so far that aren’t funny.. If i’m watching it for the wrong reasons I suppose there’s no point in continuing. I hope that’s proven wrong.
As a Sterek shipper and a general shipper, I find the entire scenario to be outrageous. I’m used to being mocked for being a “fan” and for having ships, I’m used to outright bullying, sometimes even from respected cast members of a show I watch. Teen Wolf was the show that seemed to be different.
Posey obviously has some hurt feelings, leading to his jumping into a question clearly directed at Hoechlin, however that doesn’t excuse him from calling the ship itself horrible names that can lead to detrimental views on the Sterek fans themselves. Like you said in this incredibly well written article.
My biggest issue is that this all winds down to Posey saying something that feels out of character with how the entire cast/team of Teen Wolf has treated Sterek in the past. Posey jumped on the question with unfiltered vinegar while Hoechlin tried to be calm and generic as per usual. It makes you wonder if the rest of the cast feels so generous towards Sterek or if they’ve all got hidden anger off-stage or off-camera.
This has severely damaged my view of the entire group as a whole, wondering if what I thought was genuine respect is simply a well constructed PR mask for the fan’s benefit. That makes watching the show even more difficult than it was before.
There it is! I couldn’t figure out why I felt so hurt by this until I read this comment. It does make me worry that the positive outlook I’ve seen from this group has all been faked. And I hate that it makes me doubt them. I don’t feel safe watching any of the interviews anymore. I’m not even sure I’m going to watch next week. Personally, I watch shows for fandom more than anything. I watch to feel the camaraderie with fellow fans. THAT’S why I watch and this has really torn the fandom. That’s what makes me so upset with his comments.
Thanks for the article, it’s amazing!
I’ve spent 7 hours yesterday talking about this, and I don’t even have power to say much, but saying thank you seems really appropriate. What hurt me the most yesterday was like basically right away Sterek fandom once again was the one to blame. As we shouldn’t be upset, as we shouldn’t find that unfair.
It just basically hurt to hear, so why can’t we be upset and how is that our fault that Sterek is so popular? I got messages basically saying we should be less passionate about the ship, but that’s just ridiculous and wouldn’t make us more passionate about the show, that for sure.
I do love Posey, he’s the happiest puppy out there, but I personally was really hurt by that and I do find it unnecessary and unfair. I don’t hate him but I expect other people not to hate Sterek fandom for being the way it is. And it’s wonderful.
So yeah, it was great to read after all the other stuff I’ve read, eh 🙂
Sorry TP, I don’t dislike you or your char. I’ll even confess to not being a regular viewer of TW any longer or an active Sterek shipper – tho I fully support the pairing and it’s fans. But I feel you, coming from a fellow fandom that’s suffered the same shaming turbulence both within and without it’s show.
I’m at a loss as to what TP thought to gain by his comments, beyond honest, frustration venting – which by itself I could sympathise with. But dismissing and alienating the huge swathe of TW’s fandom that is Sterek will more likely be nothing but self defeating in the popularity stakes.
Sad…because from my own viewing, timeline and dash I never got the impression TP/Scott was any less the loved central char. In fact from the two and a half seasons I watched, TW struck me as one of the better handled ensemble shows. But more often than not there will always be the char(s) that pull away from the pack (no pun intended). Stiles & Derek pretty much immediately created a momentum all of their own. Not unlike the first time a certain hunter and angel laid eyes on each other, literal sparks flew and created a perfect fandom storm.
People love what they love. Telling them they’re dirty, bad, wrong for doing so won’t make them love it any less, redress the perceived imbalance in your favour. Or make your show any the better for setting it’s fandom at each other’s throats. But it will assuredly make some of them quite rightly and understandably resent the hell out of you for saying so. Stay standing tall Sterek fans and more strength to you!
While I don’t condone what TylerP said – I think it was poorly phrased and disrespectful to the fans – I understand where he is coming from. Even though the cast and crew of the show encouraged Sterek early on, as a way to engage and bring in the audience, I doubt they ever imagined it to become as big as it has become. The passion the fans have for the pairing is overwhelming at times. Just look at the results in the polls, where Sterek will get 1000x more votes than any other pairing on the show. I ship Sterek as well, and even I am surprised by how passionate the fans can be.
Despite what gets teased at times, I don’t know if we will get any Sterek scenes this season. However, I think they are trying to grab the reigns and control the Sterek fans after the horse has bolted as it were. I don’t think it will work, but I think there probably needs to be seen some support for the rest of the show, that can match the enthusiasm of the Sterek fans. When most interviews manage to get to the topic of Sterek, even when there are no interactions on screen between the characters, it must feel like a broken record after a while. Let’s focus on the current stories for a while.
We can all continue watching the show for whatever reason that keeps us hooked, and continue to support all the actors and crew involved in making this show successful – if it wasn’t for them, there would be no show to allow Derek & Stiles to interact on anyway.
What Tyler has said has changed what I thought about him. I’m not sure what his intent was, but it came off to me, as mean and hurtful. I’m used to being treated as a joke by the show because I am a slash fan. But I thought Tyler wouldn’t say something like that. He could be joking and maybe that was a throwaway joke by Tyler, but it still is hurtful and it was shaming to me.
The real issue here though isn’t what Tyler thinks about Sterek. It’s the attitude that people in mainstream media think about Fans in general. Like that Sherlock wank lately, most kinds of questions like that, when about fandom, are usually to stir up wank and play a tired old joke (HAHA look at those weird crazy fans). So I’m more angry at the Hollywood Reporter really. Like come on look at their youtube video title. “Tyler Posey Talks Sterek Gay Romance”. Yawn linkbait, sorry I watched that video and dislike.
I agree with you. Yes, Tyler said those words, but it would’ve helped it he used other words and not come across hurtful. He could’ve just said that there’s more to the show than just shipping Sterek etc…or something.
Have been talking to some shippers and they are ready to blame themselves for not giving Tyler enough love. Well, they can do what they want but as far as I’m concerned, I think I have the right to watch a show for whatever reason I want to. May it be for the plot, the eye-candy, or anything else. Being a fan of any show doesn’t necessarily mean you have to watch the show for the leads, or the plot, and love some characters less than other, or ship one pair more than the other…You can do what you please.
I am a huge fan of the X-Men, but that doesn’t mean i am a huge fan of Cyclops or even Wolverine…I read Wolverine and the X-Men cos i like to see the mutant students in school etc…i read Young Avengers cos of the plot and teenage representation…i read X-Men because of Storm and the rest of the female characters…i read Naruto cos i like Sakura, etc. Simple. You like what you like. End of Story.
The media needs to change it’s attitude towards slash…why does every interview need to have a Sterek Q in it? I am very sure media outlets ask such Q’s cos they think slash fans just want two hot characters to hook up and make out and stuff on screen…if they read fan fics they would know that there’s much more to that..I have read numerous Sterek fics where they live their domestic lives, raising kids, etc. Shippers want to see their characters in a relationship and like every relationship it means more than just porn…i hope the media understands that and soon.
As for Posy. I’m not mad at him. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just wish he hadn’t used such harsh words even if he has started to feel uncomfortable about Sterek (for whatever reason). Every point can be made in a manner that’s not offensive or belittles someone, or at least a person can try.
What seems to be overlooked a lot, is that he hasn’t said Shipping. or shippers, he said Sterek. Tyler has both been supportive an open to shipping and has even in the past show positive reactions at Sterek. Nor is he homophobic and aiming this as an attack on the LGBT community. He has shown nothing but support for LGBT issues and even said the he would like to see Scott being BI, and supported the idea of Scott kissing Stiles. We see that in hie behavior in how tactile he is with the rest of the cast and crew kissing Dylan and Colton and I think Hoechlin as well and hugging everyone. Tyler is a ball of sunshine adorable puppy.
He said that that ship was bizarre weird and twisted, and yes I say that his choice of words could have been better, BUT the sentiment is there. For the most part the fans who ship Sterek are great reasonable people. BUT and it’s a BIG BUT there is a dark corner to that fandom as well, it’s not limited to just Sterek shippers, all fandoms and ships have it, its just the size of the Sterek ship makes that dark corner so much larger.
This dark corner is what I think he referred too, the one he has been overly exposed too, the one that actively has tried to write out his character, that tags hate and negativity to him, his character and others in the cast and crew, Remember the hate that was fired at Haley for her character sleeping with Derek, or the Sterek fan that said at a panel of cast and crew that she wished that Scott ended up dead in a pool of blood by the end of the season, thank god Posey wasn’t there in person for that one. They are the most vocal and the most visual representatives of the Sterek fandom a lot of the time.
Do they represent it all, no there is a massive part that loves Sterek and Teen Wolf and just wants to enjoy it, but a lot of the time they are drowned out by the rabid snarling of people who have turned Sterek into a Cult. It is to those people, the cultist of the blessed Sterek, that I think he addressed when he spoke, and yes he generalised which was wrong, or poorly considered, but he is right that those that have take the ship to that extreme have twisted it and made it bizarre and weird, and they are watching the show for the wrong reasons. They are the same people that turned me away from reading all Teen Wolf fanfics because they wrote out Scott, or fell into the bad friend tropes and the Scott is an arsehole and doesn’t deserve Stiles trope and the take Scott’s characteristics and graft them onto Stiles and Derek and marginalize or remove Scott entirely after slating him as a person, that did the same of similar to other characters as well. They are the ones who dimmed my love of Stiles and Derek.
Those are the people that a large number of journalist like because they make the story, and constantly entertain “the Normal” people (note the quotes on that indicating I do not believe or support that idea).
To clarify my position, I am a gay man who loves Teen Wolf, writing issues and all, who ships Scisaac, and Scanny and Dyidia, and Scallison and Styidia, and Allydia, and Scallisaac, and Janny and, and Dennifer and a lot more including Sterek. I do not take his remarks as homophobic, nor aimed at shipping or shippers in general, that he generalised it to encompass all Sterek is an issue, but an understandable one, I do also think that the hate he has been getting and the hate that is getting aimed at him is wrong and harmful to him and to the cast and crews opinion of us Teen Wolf Fans.
That may be who he was trying to refer to, but that’s not how it came across. He didn’t say SOME sterek shippers, he said sterek, period.
His intentions mean absolutely nothing. If you say Christians are crazy because of something a certain church or Christian group has done, that’s offensive. If you say Muslims are messed up because certain radical terrorist groups do awful things, that’s offensive. If you say POC are terrible because of something a particular POC or group of POC did, that’s offensive.
If you make a sweeping statement about a group saying they’re awful in some way because of what a visible and vocal minority is doing, then THAT IS OFFENSIVE.
I’m amazed at the amount of glorifying Posey is getting.
Let me put this out of the way first: Sterek is not my main ship. I ship Stydia, though I wouldn’t mind whatever endgame the series has (Stydia or Sterek) because I love all the three actors and I love that Holland ships Sterek herself.
Now, having said that, everyone in this fandom should be absolutely tired of Posey’s comments and should NOT be calling him “cute” and “sweet”.
It wasn’t long ago that I saw him giving an interview about Scott and Kira where he basically said that Scott was finally going to get, and I quote, some “vagina”.
I was astonished to how many people glorified this, to how many people said he was cute and sweet.
He was disgusting.
He reduced a female character with personality and development to an object. That is disgusting and people should have called him on that, should have been a HELL of a lot more vocal about being displeased by this, not support it.
And now this happened and people are talking about it more because it is a very big ship, and I’m thankful for that because I do think Posey’s problem should have been addressed long ago, but at least now people are opening their eyes.
And before you start on the “ur racist” bullshit, I’m Hispanic. And my grandfather is black. So, no, I’m not racist and I’m not against having people of color in the show AT ALL.
But I’m not going to be defending him because of that. You are who you are, doesn’t matter where you come from, and Posey is being an idiot who needs to be called out on that.
It is NOT OKAY to shame people for what they like. It doesn’t matter what it is. Pairings, clothes, sexuality, using a plushy bear to sleep with when you are already 30. It doesn’t matter– DON’T SHAME PEOPLE.
Now, he can be frustrated because Scott is overshadowed by Stiles and Derek (and Lydia), but that is no reason to say the stuff that he said, about the pairing and about Kira earlier (or to treat Allison the way he did too, almost like a tissue Scott used and that is now throwing away, which is even worse knowing that Crystal is probably the one who will leave the show).
Having no filter is not cute and it is not sweet. It’s disgusting the stuff he says and it’s even worse than some people are glorifying him and supporting this sort of behaviour. He might be only 22, but he is an actor, he has a job, and he has people who look up to him and, as such, he should at the very least try to give an example or shut up for good and let others do the talking.
I don’t think it’s wrong for people to want an apology. Most of all, though, they should stop supporting this sort of behaviour. It’s truly upsetting.
this this this
this so badly, thank you for putting it so well! i couldn’t have said it better!
i really hated that “vagina” comment too. i don’t get people who thought that was funny.
I may not watch Teen Wolf or ship Sterek, but I don’t have to to know that what this actor said really hurts. After reading this article, I swear to you, I was a Sterek shipper for half a second and was mad on behalf of the entire fandom. It’s very insulting to hear that something we what we see in the show, what we come to love and cherish, isn’t the “right way” to watch it. Or isn’t “what the show is about.” Trust me, as a Dean/Castiel shipper in the Supernatural fandom, we hear the same stuff time after time. From the fans shouting that we’re not “true fans” to some of the actors not thinking before answering what may be deemed ship-related questions.
I just wanted to say that, hey Sterek shippers, you’re not alone. I get it. The Supernatural fans get it. Most importantly, Dean/Castiel shippers get it, too.
We’re behind you.
I don’t ship Sterek but what Tyler Posey said is very offensive and homophobic. He himself might not hate gays but what he said is definitely homophobic and extremely offensive to Sterek shippers and the general online fandom. Just a few moments after declaring his love for the relationship between Scott and Kira, he calls Sterek bizarre, sick and twisted? Let’s keep in mind that those are words often used to demonize homosexuality. In the context of the interview, praising a straight couple and then calling a gay ship such offensive words and telling people if they pay more attention to Sterek then they’re watching the show wrong is homophobic. Just my two cents.
a hell of a lot of gay men find slash appropriative, creepy and objectifying; liking slash does not give you a not-a-homophobe cookie, and disliking slash is not evidence of homophobia. he has no qualms about his character being bi; he’s squicked by obsessive shippers who disregard all the rest of the show because tgey’re only in it for sterek.
i don’t agree with him, in general terms or in specific ones – there are LOTS of texts where what i love best isn’t the A plot or the protagonist. but i can’t blame him for feeling that way, and i disagree that it’s homophobic.
Posey never said he disapproves of Sterek. Even if he did, just because Posey supports a canon pairing as opposed to a margin of people who zero in on a non-canon pairing that happens to be male/male doesn’t make him homophobic. His words could have been gentler, but calling this homophobic is a little bit much. He’s used those words (in ‘positive’ and negative context) to describe many different things, and those words in his interview are not exclusively used to attack anyone who identifies as anything but straight.
Margin of people? STEREK keeps this show at the top of polls and on air. The idiot has just allowed his frustration to annoy and insult the shows biggest fan base. It’s not our fault he’s not the actor Dylan is or that imagined STEREK is hotter than actual Allison/Scott, Kira/Scott. I definitely don’t need HIM to tell me why I should watch the show!
Margin of people meaning the people who only watch Teen Wolf so they can obsess and fantasize two highly talented actors screwing because they’re ‘hot’. And before anyone jumps in and calls me a Sterek hater, NO. Ship what you want to ship, but if you really do only watch this show for a romance that doesn’t exist, and you are not paying Tyler H. and Dylan the credit that is due because they’re ‘hot’, you are watching this show for the wrong reasons. And before you reply to this, I suggest you wait until you feel calm enough to stop name calling. Even if Tyler expressed that he doesn’t like Sterek, and called shippers ‘idiots’? You would be hysterical. This is something you are starting, not Tyler Posey.
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The fact at the end of the day is, whether or not he has the right (of course he does) to be frustrated by the Sterek fandom overshadowing the show he is the main character on. (And it’s not just Sterek, but Dylan O’brien as well, he went from side character, to the main focus of not only the fandom, but the media that surrounds the show, rightfully so, he’s amazing, but I can understand the Main Character’s disappointment and frustration) The fact is though, he shamed an entire side of not only his fans, but his show’s fans.
Even if he just shamed ONE person in the entire Teen Wolf fandom, it still would make it just as wrong as he is. His comment was off the cuff, and judgmental, and maybe he thought about it before he said it, but he clearly didn’t think about how it might effect his viewers/fans. Shaming, whatever the reason, is wrong.
I can understand his frustration, but that doesn’t give him license to shame anyone. Ever. He can explain, he can try and overcome his frustration in a more positive way. But he chose to shame.
The other fact is, he’s young, and although he’s been a ‘celebrity’ for a long while, he’s never had this much media attention, so he’s learning. He’s growing, and he’s going to have speed bumps. I mean, I’m willing to bet everyone has said something they look back on a year later and go “Oh man, I could have handled that differently” and more than likely? This moment will be one of those moments for him. So he doesn’t deserve hate, or death threats or anything mean or over the top like that. He deserves to hear how that comment hurt feelings, cause it did, for good reason.
Basically everyone, including Posey, can handle this situation way better going out, than it was handled coming in. Shaming is wrong, period. Posey’s comments shamed, that doesn’t mean the fandom, or any individual gets to shame him back in return. Expressing hurt feelings it one thing though, and I believe everyone is entitled to express that. And their opinions. (no matter how unpopular) so long as they are respectful. We’re all just here, enjoying the same show. This article is written in exactly the respectful and expressive manner I’m talking about. It’s respectful but also articulates how the comments cut a little deeper than probably intended.
And that’s my ridiculously long ramble about the subject.
For me Sterek doesn’t overshadow Teen Wolf it enhances it. 99% of Sterek takes place in the fandom but we still check in every week to watch the show, and sure we want to see Sterek interaction but this current storyline is great and Dylan is spectacular so we keep watching regardless. If Posey has a problem he should speak to Jeff to give his character better scenes and interactions. IMHO It doesnt feel like Scott has endured enough to earn his true alpha status and doesn’t behave like an alpha at all so unfortunately the character, at the moment, is pretty dull whereas exciting things are happening elsewhere. I think he probably regrets what he says, as it did seem like a very out of character outburst, but he should apologize for using such crude, hurtful words to scorn people who don’t just support Sterek but support TW as a whole. As for the ‘wrong reasons’; if I want to tune in to TW purely to see what color eyeshadow Allison is wearing or how ridiculously short Lydia’s skirts are – that’s reason enough. It increases viewing figures and that, Mr Posey, is why you are where you are now. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you and do the right thing and apologize. We all need to move on from this.
The ship has done a lot for the show and started human and animal rights movements, that’s pretty awesome.
I don’t like Tyler Posey. I don’t like his character on Teen Wolf. When he turns into a werewolf I want to hit him across the nose with a rolled up newspaper. I do not write or read STEREK, I see no actual basis for it. That said I do ship slash pairs from another show (no longer airing) with a very similar on screen relationship.
Tyler P’s character is possibly the worst aspect of the show and his acting is constantly overshadowed by Dylan O’Brien, Tyler H, Holland Roden, J R Bourne, Linden Ashby, Jill Wagner, Keahu Kahuanui and even Daniel Sharman. He feels it, he knows he’s not the glue that holds this show together, he gets jealous and frustrated and becomes a jerk and insults a large portion of the fanbase that keeps this show on air and him in work. He’s entitled to his own opinion and to express it in an adult, reasonable way, which he did not do. The question was not even aimed at him but Tyler H, he broke his neck to jump in and answer thereby illustrating his frustration and irritation at not being the show’s darling.
He needs to apologize. I do NOT need to be told by him or anyone else why I should watch a show. He needs to grow up and stop behaving like a petulant child.
Seriously, hire me.
I’d make Allison the main character and Lydia her sidekick. They would be kicking the balls of everybody.
Then Lydia would work with Stiles, too, to do their detective thing while Stiles worked as his mother once had, as the druid of the Hale family and, as such, having to deal with a (very over-protective/possessive) sourwolf on a daily basis, teaching him the basic principles of living in society and making friends.
All the adults would stay, all on their respective roles except for Melissa, who would be an old friends of the Stilinski’s who is also a nurse and who would later, maybe, adopt Kira, who would join Allison and Lydia on the balls kicking.
Isaac could stay as Kira’s love interest not to make it awkward for Crystal, and Boyd and Erica would be back to have an interesting love story.
And I might bring another actor to play Jackson from the start.
And that would be it. And honestly?
I think it would be one Heck of a much better show. Scott is about as needed in it as a stone on my shoe.
Sorry, Posey. But you are old enough now to have to learn to deal with it. Lots of people loved Scott even if he was not their main love or the reason why they watched the show. But now that you made your attention whoring so obvious, I don’t think I can even bring myself to care for him anymore at all. Mainly after reading some of the things from the above comments that I didn’t even have any idea at all (vagina, really?).
So, yeah. Be grateful I’m not writing TW because, with me, you wouldn’t have a job.
And boy, oh boy. Good f*cking riddance.
Why on earth should I show Tyler Posey love because his feelings are hurt he’s not a popular as Dylan or Tyler H?MTV ought to make him apologize and I agree neither Posey nor Scott is sweet or cute and his behavior certainly isn’t. Personal frustrations at not being the darling of a show in which you are SUPPOSED to be the star is a fact of an actor’s life. The narcissist attitude displayed shows a lack of both judgement and maturity and maybe he needs to rethink his career or grow up, The question wasn’t even directed at him, I sensed Tyler H cringing and at least he was diplomatic. I object to being told why I should watch a show! I don’t ship or read STEREK but I may start!
ADMIN NOTE: This comment has the same IP as commenter “Alexis” and sock puppets are against the rules. The name “janet” has been updated to match the commenters previous alias.
very well put !!!! i’ll be honest I have not watched the interview. I love sterek and I cant see why watching teen wolf for more sterek can be a bad thing (each to their own) surely if a show gets viewers for any reason is good for their job security (waaaaay too many cool shows get axed) ??? I love scott and would never dismiss him as a character. I love teen wolf. I love the characters. I love the story lines. honestly don’t know why he felt the need to judge sterek but it’s not gonna stop me watching or hoping for more sterek <3
I love how Holland Roden was blatantly transphobic in the very same interview and no one cared. It’s all about Posey saying something about the poor, innocent Sterek fandom. It just shows these people don’t care about queer representation or queer sensibilities, they just care about Sterek.
What Posey said is true. It is bizarre and weird to watch a show for something that doesn’t exist. It’s even more bizarre and weird to ship a 16 year old with an abusive werewolf ten years his senior. It’s also disgusting.
My grandparents are disgusting, then, given that they are ten years apart.
And, guess what, happily married for over 60.
You are disgusting, for shaming people for loving what they do. No one shamed you for whatever it is you love, here. Why come and shame others? Tch.
I don’t get the hate Sterek gets. There are crazy fans, but there are crazy fans everywhere. It’s just what “everybody” talks about because they win every poll and caught teh media attention and so the media used Sterek to create clicks and controversy.
It’s sad that people don’t realize this.
Also, don’t start talking about being abusive. Teen Wolf is an abuse-fest. But only Sterek gets targeted. Derek, at least, has protected Stiles all the times that he could. As he has protected Scott. And, more recently, Chris. He might be awful with words, and even push people back, but when it came down to it, he protected Stiles, and tried to create a barrier between him and the “supernatural” world (vs the Kamina, vs Isaac’s werewolf, etc).
(vs his crazy uncle, vs the Alpha Pack, … wow, I’m even thinking about more things than I ever cared to stop and think about. Oo )
… That awkward moment when a Stydia shipper actually begins to see the Sterek appeal more clearly. >>
… Is the OT3 a thing that exists already? Can we make it happen? Sterekydia?
Sorry for all the posting, but my mind was suddenly blown. I swear I had never thought so much about Derek and Stiles’ actual interaction on the show like this before all this discussion began.
I like it!
My life hasn’t been the same since, er, last week, when I realized that Derek and Lydia were perfect for each other.
She’s been, as HR said, “kissing all the toads looking for the prince,” although I think it’s more like she’s kissing the princes and uncovering monsters. We always see her reading as a pasttime. Derek was so sweet and romantic and flirty with Jennifer. In his spare time we see him doing nothing but reading.
Picture: Derek and Lydia curled up in a window seat both reading in silence together with Prada curled up with them. Derek giving Lydia flirty kisses and making nerdy jokes. Intimate kissing and crazy sex.
Then, yes, picture a Stiles. A Stiles lying on the floor under the window seat whining because he can’t get anyone to pay him attention. A Stiles getting down with Lydia while Derek kisses them both and does protective grooming. A Stiles doing his getting super frustrated with Lydia thing and a Derek turning him around by the shoulder and sitting him down somewhere and feeding him. A Lydia groaning one of her boys is wearing /that/ and re-dressing them. A Lydia calling the shots with her boys…hmmm, anywhere but a bed. A Lydia putting her finger on two different pairs of lips when Stiles and Derek get argumentative.
And at last you have taught me a word for it. Sterekydia. LOVES IT.
Still not seeing how that comment was transphobic v. transaware. How many people would mention transexuality as an aspect a show might explore in an interview?
More important if Jeff gets his actual transexual werewolf character into Season 4.
I think if you can watch a TV show and accept a person turning into a wolf then pretty much everything else ( including sexuality ) is up for grabs. I think it bizarre that someone can accept a vast array of different supernatural situations but not Derek and Stiles being attracted to each other ( I mean THAT’s your limit !!! ).
TW has already added to werewolf mythology so I don’t see why sexuality can’t be part of that.
I did find it upsetting the phrase Tyler used but it was his last sentence ‘and that’s all I’ve got to say about that’ which I thought was also telling – why didn’t he want to talk about it further.
Personally I would love it if Stiles were in a relationship with both Derek and Lydia. Now that would make for all sorts of great story lines.
I think if Tyler Posey does feel undervalued he underestimates both his ability and the importance of his character. His character is the glue that keeps everything together. I find his performances totally natural.
I hope that Tyler can have an honest discussion with any of his gay mates whose relationships/lifestyles have been denigrated as bizarre/weird/twisted so that he can truly appreciate the impact it those words have had on them.
I truly hope this gets sorted. I know the world and life are bigger than TW but being such a ground breaking and awesome show, it, the fans and all of the cast deserve it.
Have a great day everyone
I don’t understand what upset people, seriously, I like sterek but Tyler has every right to say what he wants.
When he and the cast spend hours acting out stories but people aren’t even paying attention because Stiles and Derek looked at each other, I’d be annoyed too.
Nothing to do with being jealous, he just wants the fans to see the show for what it is, not just a fanon couple that could never happen.
But seriously he said a ship was weird, who cares? He didn’t say fans were weird so why does anyone care.
If Tyler has every right to say whatever he wants, then fans have every right to say that they found his comment and/or word choices offensive and hurtful.
Freedom of speech goes both ways, and while you have the right to say whatever you want, that also means you’re responsible for the consequences of what you’ve said. So if your words hurt someone, that’s on you, and you should probably take a long, hard look on your choices.
A lot of people spend hours hard at work doing amazing things without ever getting any validation or attention for it. Posey isn’t entitled to validation or attention just because he’s the main star of a show. All he can do is what everybody else does: work hard, and hope that someone will enjoy it and show their appreciation. Fans consume media for a multitude of reasons, and for a single member of a media production to expect that ALL fans must consume said media for THEM is naive and, quite frankly, narcissistic.
Whether you think a ship will happen canonically or not, whether you think it’s an important part of the show or not is irrelevant. No-one has the right to tell anyone how they SHOULD watch and perceive a show. “What the show is” depends entirely on the individual viewer, because we filter what we see through our own experiences and backgrounds. So if, to some people, “what the show is”, is the interactions between two (or more) particular characters, then that’s an entirely valid way of watching the show.
Just because you weren’t offended doesn’t mean other people weren’t. Context matters, history matters, and he used derogatory words historically used to shame anyone who’s not cis-het, about a ship that isn’t cis-het. He used words that are CONSTANTLY used against (sexually explicit) media specifically targeted towards (and often created by) women, about this exact type of media. Women are constantly shamed for enjoying romance novels, shipping fic, etc., yet it would take something fairly extreme for anything directed towards a male audience to get the same treatment.
He said the ship was twisted, bizarre and wrong, and honestly, the logical leap most people will make is:
“He said a thing that I like is twisted, bizarre and wrong. So if I like it, that means he thinks *I’M* twisted, bizarre and wrong as well.”
Which is an entirely valid – and even normal – response. This is why people care. Because words matter.
I guess I’m not as easily offended as some, but at what point did expressing your opinion become reasons to ask for an apology? I ship Sterek like a nobody’s business, but I don’t watch the show hoping for a hook up with the characters. I believe that’s the point he’s trying to make. It just seems people are reaching to find fault in his statement, when it’s not there. I will continue to be a fan (I love his light heartedness) of his and the show and Sterek.
All this controversy over Sterek reminds me of just how amazing Spartacus as a show was. It took two popular male characters, Agron and Nasir, and made them a canon couple. There were hints from the very beginning, but Agron was an alpha male German gladiator who disliked house slaves and despised Syrians. Nasir was both. It all seemed like wishful thinking, and then the slash got real.
I’ll be the first to admit that Tyler Posey was wrong to use the words that he did. Someone who isn’t as aware of him wouldn’t know that he happily supports most gay ships on the show, and it isn’t very good language to use towards fans as it is.
However, this was bound to happen eventually. Scott as a character is continually replaced by Derek in fics and gifsets on tumblr, with fans – usually Sterek shippers, unfortunately – saying the show would be much better without him. At cons and the like, he and other cast members are constantly asked about Sterek, which hasn’t been so much as vaguely hinted to have a chance of becoming canon in the show. If I worked my butt off to create an amazing show and a vocal portion of the show’s fans only seemed to care about a noncanon relationship, it would grate on me, too.
The most unfortunate side effect of his comments, and the lack of any follow-up from him or any other official source besides the official Teen Wolf tumblr’s tactless reblogging, is that the fandom has become divided. What was once an astoundingly peaceful fandom has been reduced to Tyler Posey fans vs. Sterek shippers, with members of each side acting very entitled and rude.
Both sides have problematic elements. Some of the Tyler Posey camp has acted as though nothing he said was the least bit incorrect and villified the Sterek subfandom for making him feel as he does. Some of the Sterek shippers are claiming that, as the majority of the fandom (which they are not; being loud and publicly acknowledged does not make one the majority), they are owed Sterek becoming canon, and I’ve seen MANY posts urging the fandom to send Tyler Posey nasty messages.
Tyler Posey, Jeff Davis, MTV, ANYBODY needs to step forward and smooth this over. The Teen Wolf fandom no longer feels like a safe place to be.
He has a right to his opinion. I just wish I hadn’t heard it. I found the show through Sterek fics during S2 and have been a fan ever since. The fact that the show seemed more accepting of the fandom made me like it even more. Of course I never expected it to become canon, but it was nice finding a show that wasn’t derisive of a portion of its own fans. I would never consider boycotting it, but I feel like Posey’s words are going to stay in the back of my mind like a bad aftertaste spoiling something I used to enjoy. It’s stupid, because it’s just a show, but I feel sad about it now.
agree 100% with everything you have said
Thank you very much for this article.
Very well put and it cuts straight to the heart of the matter.
I’ve seen a lot of people say that Tyler Posey was just stating “an opinion”.
Now, what makes an opinion an opinion?
And what makes an insult?
Well, one of the hallmarks of an opinion is that it might be critical…..but it doesn’t use derogatory terms.
And yes, “weird, twisted and bizarre” ARE pretty much degrading terms.
All of these words HURT people, and they are add nothing constructive or helpful to a discussion.
Now, the other hallmark of an opinion is that it doesn’t generalize.
Opinions are subjective, personal things, not some kind of religious credo that you need to accept unquestioningly or be branded as a heretic.
An opinion might nudge people in a certain direction.
It might evaluate what other people are doing from a personal perspective.
But an opinion doesn’t TELL other people how they have to feel about something or what they have to do and how to do it.
And yet, Tyler Posey was telling people that they were watching for the wrong reasons, if they were watching for Sterek.
So, was what Tyler Posey said “just an opinion”?
No, it wasn’t.
By the rude and hurtful nature of his words and by the authoritarian, high-handed judgement on how, according to him, people had to watch the show in such-and-such manner, what he said was an insult to fans…..and yes, in general, if you are insulted you have each and every right to be upset about that.
That said, I, as many other Sterek shippers, feel that insulting Mr. Posey in any form is an absolute no-go (two wrongs don’t make a right and all that)…..but politely letting him know that his words hurt a lot of people and that an apology would be nice would be well within the bounds of common propriety.
A bit more food for thought:
The object of Mr. Posey’s ire was a ship….and bashing a ship like that is commonly referred to as ship shaming.
Within the fandom, ship-shaming is usually considered very rude at best (and worse things if people are being un-charitable).
For most, ship-shaming is a no-go when other fans do it.
Is it any less bad when a non-fandom member does it?
The other thing I often see floating around is the tenet that BNFs should be a bit considerate and careful about what they say, because what they say can have hugely negative consequences (with great power comes great responsability and all that).
If BNFs should be considerate and careful about what they say and how they say something, then shouldn’t that go even more so for people working for the acutal show, and especially for the main cast?
Last but not least:
It seems that Tyler Posey’s words were born out of frustration, because Sterek is far more popular than Scott, the character he plays.
Does this frustration excuse him insulting and hurting a lot of people?
Well, for one, are people in any way OBLIGED to like his character?
Are people OBLIGED to like ANY character?
Because consider this:
Actors are basically professionals “selling” a product:
They might put a lot of work into it and a lot of passion….but it’s also the job they earn their money with.
I’m not obliged to buy a Mac Book from Apple when I prefer a PC.
And in the same way, I see no reason why fandom should be obliged to choose Scott over Stiles and Derek.
Is it frustrating if people don’t want to buy a product you spend much time and effort on?
Does this give you the right to lash out at people who might have been customers, but who decided on buying a different product?
And for those who cry “racism” at fandom for choosing Sterek over Scott: Sorry, but, it’s not like Posey is the first actor to be side-lined in favour of other characters from the cast.
For example, “Thor” might be the titular character….but let’s face it, it’s LOKI who has an ARMY of fans (and Chris Hemsworth bears this burden a lot more gracefully than Posey does).
What Posey said wasn’t “just an opinion”, it was an insult.
Sterek fans have a right to be upset over this.
Giving voice to that upset is justified (insults and suchlike are not though).
Posey might feel hurt because compared to Sterek, he is not that much of a fan fave, but that only explains his words, it doesn’t excuse them, especially since he’s an actor doing the job he gets paid for.
Fandom owes Tyler Posey the respect and common courtesy all people owe their fellow human beings.
Fandom does not owe Tyler Posey their love.
Because love is free and it can’t (and shouldn’t) be forced.
I recall an earlier interview in which Tyler Posey said that even though the show was good, he felt that it was gaining popularity cause of the great personalities of its cast members. Not the characters or the plot mind you, but the cast members.
To start seeing a show cause you like the actors? Now wouldnt this be a “wrong reason” to watch the show? But Posey didnt seem to mind that.
Also i wonder how twisted and wrong would Posey have found it if “Scott/Stiles” were the biggest ship in the fandom.
What annoys me the most is that he belittled a concept which has contributed significantly to this little known show’s popularity and to the increasing popularity of tyler hoechlin right to tyler hoechlin’s face. When the question had been posed, Hoechlin seemed ready to laugh and give one of their standard 50-50 answers and enjoy being one half of the fandom’s obssesion.
Doesnt Posey get more screen time than Hoechlin? So be grateful for that and let Hoechlin enjoy his wrong, twisted and bizzare fans. If anyone has a right to be offended, its Hoechlin or Dylan. Why’s Posey getting uptight over Sterek?
Ehh, I don’t see a problem with what he said. He stated that he saw it like that. He didn’t comment on the shippers and he didn’t insult them. He didn’t say that the shippers were twisted and weird, just that he thought the pairing was. If you are watching the show just for sterek that’s kind of dumb; wait a bit and you will most likely see the scene on tumblr as a gif or something.
Also, I am a sterek shipper (although obviously not as big a shipper as some of you). Honestly, I think all of this is being blown way out of proportion (like something small always is). I dont hate or love tyler posey, so don’t think I am saying this to defend him. I’m neutral on my opinion of him.
If this offends you, wow, you get offended too easily. Take a step back and relax.
Just not as much as it may have, you know, three seasons ago.
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I think the reason he says that Sterek shippers aren’t watching the show for the right reason is really because he gets angry about two characters that have little interaction and are portrayed as pretty much hating each other are somehow shipped together, not because he is homophobic.
(this is just what i think he meant, not my opinion. you are entitled to disagree, but abusing me will in no way validate your argument)
stiles is a teenager. derek is a adult. that IS twisted and bizarre and wrong. ship two people the same age(allydia maybe? or scissac), please.
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Well… love is a weird bizarre and twisted thing. Isn’t it? It’s a storm of biochemical reactions. It’s actually a drug! Our brains can’t compute rightly… I know Mr Posey wasn’t referring to love in general by the way but think about it. Isn’t love a twisted, bizarre and weird thing?
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