There’s Something About Stalia… That’s Problematic

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There’s been a great deal of controversy over the newest pairing in Teen Wolf, ever since the ship’s first appearance last season. In fact, the very mention of its name: Stalia, is apparently enough to drive Teen Wolf fans to each other’s throats.

For a show that has created and destroyed female characters more frequently than it features actual werewolf transformations, Malia Tate has stuck out from the rest in that she has decisively divided fans. She has been accused of being a Mary Sue, an abusive character, and just plain unnecessary. Perhaps if she had simply appeared as a new character with a focus on her struggle to be human and reunite with her long-lost creepy father, then maybe fans wouldn’t so anti-Malia.

But the writers of Teen Wolf performed a cardinal sin: they paired her up with Stiles.

4Aside from being a fan favorite, Stiles is also the token singleton. He’s the Everyman character and the link for fans to relate to a show about supernatural teenagers who are weirdly hot. Therefore, fans love to pair Stiles with any number of characters, the most prominent ships being Stydia (Stiles and Lydia) and of course, Sterek (Stiles and Derek).

While it’s starting to become to pretty obvious that Sterek was never going to become canon, season 3b featured plenty of moments that hinted at Stiles and Lydia finally getting together after two and a half seasons of Stiles pining for her: including Stiles and Lydia working together constantly, Lydia’s concern when Stiles’ goes missing, and Aiden’s convenient death.

But now, there’s Malia. And while fans are either stubbornly for her or viciously against her, it seems that the writers have honestly no idea what to do with her. Quite suddenly, both Sterek and Stydia are being unceremoniously pushed aside for Stalia, a ship that, quite frankly, doesn’t sit well with many fans.

Screen-Shot-2014-03-02-at-2.34.05-PM-1024x576It all started back in last season’s “Echo House,” with its troubling vague-make-out-maybe-sex scene between the two characters. We’ve discussed the problematic nature of this scene before, and even actor Dylan O’Brien (Stiles) claimed at AlphaCon this summer that he refused to do a full sex scene between Malia and Stiles. It’s obvious that the audience also agreed that a sex scene would’ve been wrong and not a little creepy as they applaud Dylan, who responds happily, “Oh, I thought you guys would boo me for that.”

No, Dylan, we’re on board with teenagers who have mental health issues and/or a lack of social and emotional growth NOT having sex in the dirty basement of a mental health facility.

But that was last season. Maybe the creepy implications of Stiles and Malia (who let’s remember has been a coyote living in the wild since she was 9) hooking up have lessened with time and maybe the issue of consent is no longer one we have to worry about.

Sadly, the latest episode, “117,” put the kibosh on that hope as well. In an exchange of dialogue that was presented as a throwaway light-hearted moment, Stiles explains to Scott that Malia has been sneaking into his bedroom at night. Not only does she sneak in, but she actually crawls into his bed and lies beside him as he’s asleep. Then Stiles lifts up the back of his shirt and reveals something to Scott, who looks aghast.

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Fans speculate that it’s scratches as a bite in Teen Wolf is a pretty big deal. But no matter what it is that Malia is doing to Stiles’ back, it’s UNWANTED. There is nothing in the exchange between Scott and Stiles that implies that Stiles wants Malia to sneak into his room and presumably mark him in some way. At no moment does Stiles look happy or like a teenager in love. He looks hassled, confused, and a more than a little put off. Like the hook up scene in “Echo House,” viewers are told to accept a relationship in which the exchange of consent is extremely ambiguous. While Stiles does not say he does not want to be physical with Malia (even if it’s just spooning and scratches), he also does not say he does and that is a huge point of contention. After all, the lack of a yes is still a no.

What’s even more troubling is that this isn’t a case of viewers reading too much into a situation. Shelley Hennig, who plays Malia, has said some pretty triggering stuff in interviews about her character. In an interview with TVLine, she said:

Malia’s very aggressive. She’ll physically grab him, and that means she loves him, as opposed to brushing his face with her hands. She’s more likely to punch him; that’s her way of showing love.

Ok, NO. We get that Malia was a coyote for most of her life and we also get that she needs a great deal of time to become adjusted to living life as a human. What we don’t get is why is the writers are insisting on pushing her into a romantic relationship with Stiles so quickly. The above quote is so dangerous in that it implies that violence can be used to express love, which is definitely not even remotely true, even if the perpetrator is apparently unaware that it is wrong. If this is the case with Stalia, then there is nothing romantic or healthy about Stiles and Malia’s relationship.

Even if you like the character of Malia (after all, she is complicated and has the potential for great things), there’s no denying that the majority of fans seem to be against Stiles engaging in a romantic relationship with her.

Screen Shot 2014-07-03 at 3.58.14 PM
Survey from MTV.com

So, what do you think? Do you think Stalia is a ship worth sailing? Are there other problematic issues with the relationships in Teen Wolf? Do you think the writers even know what they’re doing at this point?

Author: Kerry


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  1. I think it is purposefully an abusive relationship, so that maybe the show can finally deal with some consent issues. It can sail so long as it also sinks.

    1. I don’t know if the writers are actually planning that but then again, who knows what they’re doing over there?

  2. If the writers have something up their sleeve for Malia, they better pull it out fast. Because right now, it looks just like straight up shitty writing. Even if Malia hadn’t been paired up with Stiles, she still wouldn’t of been accepted in as easily as they like to think. (how come every other pairing got a slow build relationship? Hell, even Jennifer and Derek had at least 3 episodes in-between before they had sex. Stiles had 20 minutes after actually talking to Malia.) Either Malia is going to be evil and Stiles is going to have a Derek parallel, or they’re just going to lose fans at an even more alarming rate.

    1. I actually haven’t thought of Stiles becoming a Derek parallel. That’s an interesting idea though it wouldn’t negate the problematic aspects of their relationship. After all, I consider Derek a victim of issues of consent as well (with Kate). But yes, the writers need to fix their portrayal of this character because it’s getting quite embarrassing.

  3. I honestly don’t care for relationships on Teen Wolf. They’ve all grown to be so meaningless and dumb. Romance for the sake of romance isn’t special. Why does practically everyone want Sterek? Because it’s the only relationship that hasn’t been made just for the sake of having one. Scott/Allison, Jackson/Lydia, and Stiles/Derek were parings that everyone wanted to be endgame. And now that there’s no Allison or Jackson, all anyone has left is Sterek, but even that’s fading because of Stalia. Jeff has said that “The show isn’t written by the fans,” but it actually IS. It’s the fans that watch the show who are giving you the ability to even MAKE it. And if Tyler Posey wants to bring up how people who only watch TW for Sterek “aren’t watching it for the right reasons,” then that’s why the viewer’s have gone down significantly when S4 started.

    1. “aren’t watching it for the right reasons,”

      I wasn’t aware there was a right or wrong way/reason to watch a show. Is this like being a ‘true fan’?

          1. I don’t know. There are really toxic Sterek fans who act like they own the show and treat it like it’s “The Sterek Show” rather than “Teen Wolf”. Like I’ve seen Scott hate and Lydia hate because they “interfere with Sterek” and even people saying that they’d rather have Stiles or Derek die if they don’t get together which says to me that they really only care about the ship and not anything the characters are going through or what would make sense in the show. (And personaly I felt like Posey was talking about the Sterek fenominon rather than the actual ship but that’s just how I interuperted it.)

            1. And you think that isn’t true for Stydia fans? I have literally gotten messages telling me to kill myself for shipping Sterek. I have been insulted and threatened by Stydia shippers. So don’t act like Sterek shippers are the only toxic ones in the fandom. And how is Posey going to say that shipping isn’t the right reason to watch the show, when all the promo leading up to this season was SHIPPING RELATED!

            2. If I remember my lit and art classes correctly, there is no ‘correct’ way to interpret art. You experience art and lit based on your own personal history. So each person is going to have a different view.

              When you tell someone that they are ‘doing it wrong’, you’re telling them that their life experiences are wrong or invalid.

              And that’s why this is insulting.

              Also, stop using a handful or crazy to brand an entire subset of fans. By now, all of us know that a few bad apples exist in every section of a fandom. This is a tired argument.

              I’m not even in the Teen Wolf fandom but I’ve seen crazy in every pairing and it makes people look foolish when they cry that their pairing is picked on by the crazy in of another pairing. You’ve just made me lose respect for your pairing. Was that your intention?

              1. * “You’ve just made me lose respect for your pairing. Was that your intention?”

                And this isn’t supposed to be in my comment. Argh. sorry.

              2. it’s not about there being a wrong way to ~interpret art~ it’s about sterek being a silly motivation to watch the show, IF that is your only motivation. the way the sterek fandom treats posey/scott is like me showing up at a thanksgiving feast that my mother prepared with love and saying WOOHOO SCREW EVERYTHING ELSE, I’M ONLY HERE FOR THE TURKEY SANDWICHES and she’s like “but there aren’t any turkey sandwiches here? i mean, there’s turkey, but not sandwiches…and there’s also mashed potatoes and cranberry sauce and family and friends and music and hugs and if you’re only here for turkey sandwiches then you’re here for the wrong reason” because she’s hurt and insulted.

                1. Are you kidding me? Your mom isn’t being payed a HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY for cooking for thanksgiving like actors are for doing THEIR JOB !!???!!!! There is no right or wrong reason to watch a show ! Whatever drives you, go one !!
                  As an actor, you should just be happy that people are watching and actually liking your work ! FOR WHATEVER REASON!!
                  What kind of actor are you when you say/imply that people should watch your show for this or that ? That’s not being professional OR humble ! That’s just pretentious at best !

                2. Your comparison doesn’t make any sense. I’m sorry.

                  Please take a communications 101 class and get back to me.

            3. You may have seen that, but they don’t represent the majority of Sterek fans anymore than any other group of extreme haters represent the group they’re supposedly a part of. I don’t like Malia, but I don’t approve of the people who wish the actress ill, for instance. It’s never fair to use the actions of a few in order to dismiss or denigrate the majority of their group.

    2. Yeah if you think Sterek shippers are the reasons ratings are down you are incredibly naive. Posey said the whole sterek is bizarre thing while 3B was airing and the ratings didn’t even take a hit. In fact Stiles and Derek didn’t interact the entire season and that was the highest rated season the show has ever had. But unlike a lot of you I don’t think the ratings are down due to one pairing. Casual viewers tend to love and ship what they’ve been given they are rarely the ones to go looking for subtext. So no, the majority of viewers do not ship sterek most have no clue what that even is.

      As for the ratings this season, well, one major difference between this season and the last is that the cast went on a major press tour promoting season 3b so far they’ve done practically nothing. And are we forgetting that a major character died last season and another important one left? I know fandom tends to think of itself as bigger than it actually is but a lot and I mean a lot of us do not count towards the ratings as much as we think we do. Fandom is important to a show for many, many other reasons but ratings are not one of them.

      1. Except the ratings after Echo House took an incredible downward turn last season. I don’t know if you were heavily involved online, but that episode made so many fans quit. I know I had quite a few friends drop out of the fandom, because they couldn’t handle how bad the writing was.

      2. 3B was high rated because of Dylan’s acting. FACT.
        He was awesome there! And That’s why 3B was saved.
        But in S4 we had: badly written Malia, forced Stalia, malia taking stiles’ place in discovering stuffs, less awesomeness from stiles, Derek rushing in another relationship, Lydia being less shown, no Danny because Jeff is an idiot, more new people…..
        An TW in badly made. PERIOD.
        Personally I am in a point that I prefer everyone single.

        Conclusion: season 4 had the lowest rating average of all and the lowest finale. Plus, 6 of 12 episodes are in TOP10 episodes with the lowest ratings.

  4. I don’t like the idea of Stydia because Stiles and Lydia are so amazing just being in a “I respect you and appreciate your wit” friendship. It would be terrible to see them in a romantic relationship because they don’t have that type of chemistry for romance, but friendship.
    Stalia is just so flawed, I can’t put it in the right words. Shelley Hennig is a good actress, but her character is so bad. I wish they had done something better with her character. Like give her an arc without any boy drama. A girl that has been living as a coyote in the woods for 8 years after murdering her mom and sister shouldn’t be in a sexual or any sort of relationship with a boy she had just met. And how did she learn to dance all seductively like that??? Kira may be awkward, but that still did not justify anything.
    I say no relationships for any characters. Lydia needs time to settle with the death of her best friend, and if anything, they should have had Malia have an arc with Lydia and Kira where they’re becoming good friends. Not Malia “I won’t leave you, Stiles, but I’d leave them.” Stiles is recovering from the Nogitsune. It’s been two months argument? Then let him have more time with his best friend Scott. More friendships, less relationships.

    1. I agree on there being no romantic relationships for the teens. There have been so many traumatic events that have happened to these teenagers in the last year with absolutely NO chance for them to actually contemplate what has happened. From Allison’s death to Isaac’s random disappearance… can’t they focus on that rather than hooking up?

      1. yeah and this comment is hella ableist. So you’re saying that people suffering from traumatic experiences shouldn’t be in relationships? They can be in a relationship AND deal with this stuff. Are you just that bitter?

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    2. Oh man, I agree so much. I also would really like to see Stiles and Lydia interacting and working together as the brains of the operation, as a kickass, super smart, not-to-be-messed-with, /machine/, and a best friendship between them would be so dangerous to anyone who gets in their way, haha, but I just can’t see them romantically. Like, I can’t see a romantic dynamic working with them. Also, the whole “nice guy gets the girl if he just perseveres long enough” thing doesn’t sit well with me. Like, there comes a point when you have to accept that the person you’re interested in isn’t going to return your feelings (especially after years and years), and if it were any other guy, I would be worried about harassment (although of course our Stiles has been perfectly respectful and hasn’t pushed anything :3). Obviously this is personal preference and I don’t have anything against the ship or the shippers, I’d just like to point that out.

      And although I’m a Sterek shipper myself, I honestly don’t want romantic relationships for any of the characters this season. Stiles needs to recover from the repercussions of having a Nogitsune possess him (which is a super big thing to tackle).

      Derek needs to take a break from the romance department for a while; I know we’ve all joked about how he’s unlucky with the ladies, but seriously, the trust issues he must have developed by this point are horrendous. He’s been seduced, tricked, manipulated, and betrayed by the women he allowed himself to have feelings for (and Paige, who died because of him, seriously the GUILT issues this guy is dealing with), which is scarring for Derek and also sucky writing and crappy representation for women.

      Lydia has had her best friend die, and although we really don’t know much about her relationship with Aiden, he died too and she must have felt something. Plus, she’s coming into her banshee powers and has no idea what she is and what’s going on with her and she needs to mourn and try to learn more about herself and what being a banshee means.

      Malia needs to learn how to reintegrate herself into society. She needs to learn social etiquette and things like empathy and /being human/, and she needs to take it slow. She can’t just go jumping straight into high school /and/ and relationship! What were they thinking?? Homeschool her if need be, but she simply can’t keep up on a 3rd or 4th grade education! And sexual maturity and relationships should be last on her list. (I can go on and on and on and ON about the issues I have with her character and how she was introduced and her backstory and how Stalia is rife with consent issues and creepiness. I mean, if it was sex, then it was unprotected. But either way, sex or just making out, it was still in the “dirty basement of a mental health facility”, as this article so finely puts it. I’ll stop now on Malia or this comment will never end)

      Scott just lost the love of his life. LIterally, these two were so in love and they went through so much to stay together. It is a few months later and he seems to be over it (from what we’ve seen so far in s4) and is already pursuing another relationship. He needs time to mourn too. (See the pattern? Everyone needs time to grieve, and skipping a few months is so lazy, it. is. a. cop out.)

      I think Kira was probably the one who came out of this whole ordeal least scathed, but I’d still like to see something from her on all this.

      You’re right, Jamie. We want stronger friendships, not more flimsy relationships for the sake of having “romance”. I want to see character development. I don’t want more violence and action scenes and hookups if they’re going to be so awkwardly placed, shallow, and detrimental to the plot.
      I’d really love to see Stiles and Scott being brothers and helping each other cope and just being there for each other. s4e3 gave us more bro time with them than there has been in a while so I’m happy about that, at least. Still, not nearly enough to calm my dissent.

      Yeah. That’s just. What I have to say, I guess. Ugh, I’m getting a headache.

  5. Malia was a feral animal for most of her life and for some reason it’s okay to have sex with a girl who hasn’t been in a human body since she was 8? Sorry everyone, however cute that 5 minute segment was between her and Stiles, it’s freaking messed up. Why can’t we have good character development without them being in useless romances? How about we have a romance that actually MEANS something and GROWS with the characters? Seriously, let’s look at Teen Wolf’s track record: Scott and Allison fall in love almost instantly, same thing happens with Kira. Same thing with Isaac and Allison, Lydia and Aiden. What the hell, Teen Wolf? Do you think that we’re so mindless and eager for sex that we don’t care about the build for any sort of romance. Why do you think people like sterek so much? Because right now it looks like the only thing that has a building relationship in this damn series. How about Lydia can be single? WHOA? A female or male person in a TV show who is SINGLE? SHOCKING. How about Stiles actually takes time to grieve over the several deaths he has caused? How about he relies on friendship and maybe a slow building relationship with those he cares about? Rather than some random hook up with a girl who should have the mentality of an 8 year old and the girl who ignored him for 10+ years. C’mon, MTV, you can do better!

    1. To be frank, Stiles deserves a lot better than being shoved into a relationship with Malia. It makes no sense that Stiles, after the trauma of the nogitsune, he’d be back to funny, sarcastic, gittery Stiles. I really wish the writers had more respect for these characters.

      1. I think your missing a point here in that sometimes people trying to feal with Trauma try to make everything as it was before the trauma while they process and try to deal with it. It gives them an anchor to stay grounded. Sometimes that becomes avoidance of the issue, but other times it helps them process it.
        As to abusive relationships, then why not say that Sterek is an abusive relationship as well, or Stydia. They are both abusive to Stiles who is apparently a fragile wall flower now, unable to take care of himself. But that’s the double standard, the Sterek shippers get off on Derek being rough with Stiles and hate Malia and Stiles for being rough. Stiles stalked Lydia for Ten years while she ignored or used him to her whims, and only recently has it even started to move past that into a semi stable friendship.
        So no, please continue to not look at the whole story, or all the interactions and just present one side of it. Don’t think that Malia actually matured and grew up as she lived on her own and learned to survive, lets not consider the idea that two hurting people tried to find some sort of connection and human bond after one is being possessed and the other is trying to cope with an entirely different social system and appears to have been abandoned to an asylum by her father and finds someone who knows what her story is and won’t reject her for it. Apparently you loose all need to be or find comfort when you have issues.

        1. You can’t compare Malia’s actions to Derek’s or Lydia’s, because the show isn’t telling us that either Derek or Lydia is an actual romantic partner for Stiles. Fans can like what they like, but the show’s canon is what it is. Fanfic that deals with abusive behavior usually has a reason behind it, whether it’s to react to the abuse or even to titillate with it. But if the show, in canon, is going to present behavior that comes across to a lot of people as hinting at dub-con, then its intent can’t be the latter. It also shouldn’t be to amuse, which I’m afraid is exactly what they want to do with it.

        2. But the thing is, Stiles and Derek are not in an actual romantic relationship, so like Ellery said, you can’t compare. We don’t know what they’d be like in a romantic relationship in canon.

          However, if we go by how they interact now, then I can still make a few arguments. Stiles doesn’t take Derek’s shit, doesn’t back down. He talks back, he puts up a fight, he argues with him, he speaks his mind. He gives as good as he gets. He gets bigger, metaphorically, around Derek. It’s the opposite with Malia. He seems to become more docile, more compliant, which is not the Stiles we’ve grown to know. Shelley Hennig even said he “shrinks” around her. He lets her boss him around. What she says, goes.
          And when she says or does rather harsh, bordering sociopathic things like not caring whether Lydia or Kira lived or died, wanting to leave Lydia behind, or saying she’d eat her if the hunt was bad, Stiles says she’s “making progress”. He makes lots of excuses for her. I know it seemed like they were half playing it for laughs, half trying to portray the “animalistic” side to Malia, but that’s pretty messed up serious stuff right there. We are human beings, and our morals are one of the things that differentiate us from the rest of the animal kingdom. And besides, Stiles trying to teach her to be more “human” is really, really coming off like someone training a dog, which is just not right.

          Derek, while pragmatic, doesn’t leave pack behind, isn’t so cold as that. And yes, Malia has spent the better part of her life and critical development as a coyote out in the wilderness, and that’s a pretty damn good explanation for why she’s like this, BUT that just means she shouldn’t be in a romantic relationship at all in the first place. She’s not ready for it. She needs to acclimatize to human life again, needs to gain the empathy that the average human being has. And it’s not really her fault, but she can’t be trusted so implicitly. Her animal instincts will win out, in the end. A few months as a human isn’t going to cancel out 9, 10 years as a wild animal.

          And back to Derek, his threats are empty anyway. He likes to be the tough guy and keep that image up, but he’s not /actually/ going to hurt Stiles, and Stiles knows that. I honestly don’t think Stiles is genuinely afraid of him, despite what he’s said. He wouldn’t bring him in on plans, wouldn’t trust him with information, wouldn’t be so casual in their interactions, or even interacting with him at all, if that were the case. The same goes for Derek. He wouldn’t do any of that if he didn’t trust Stiles.
          Stiles has also expressed concern for Derek. For example, comforting him with a hand on his shoulder after he’s forced to kill Boyd, and in 3×11, did you /hear/ the panic and distress in his voice when he was trying to wake Derek up??

          But anyway, so while Derek is rough with Stiles, it’s not coming from him as a romantic partner, like it is coming from Malia. If Sterek ever becomes canon, I would certainly hope Derek doesn’t keep up that habit, or else I wouldn’t stand for it, despite being a Sterek shipper myself. Their relationship would certainly be more tactile and tougher than, say, Scott and Allison’s, but in the way that’s playful, not worrying.

          Tbh at this point, I, and others, have stopped attributing the actions of the well-established characters to the characters themselves, stopped saying, “Stiles did this” or “Derek did that”. I’ve started saying “Davis had Stiles do this, made Stiles say that”, without even noticing. When viewers start to remember that the characters they see on their TV are being written by someone, if that’s all they can think about as they’re watching the show, that’s when you know something’s very, very wrong.

  6. This article points out everything that is wrong with Stalia. I am probably going to get hate for this but during the interview with TVLine and I have read it, she said that Stiles is going to be Malia’s mate … Okay what the freak makes her so damn special that she gets to have a mate? Now that may or may not happen but if it does (and something tells me that it will) why does she get a mate? Why not Scott or Derek you know characters who have been there since the beginning. And the whole physically grabbing him and punching him? That’s not love or affection that’s abused !!! If Shelly thinks that’s love I’m scared to know what she thinks hate is. One thing that bugs me about this ship is it makes no sense! Why are you putting two people who had little interaction with each other? Why did you made Stiles have sex (or not) with her ??? Seriously she goes from hating him to making out with him ??? why are you forcing this ship down our throats? Some people love Stalia and I respect that but people also need to respect why some dont like Stalia. And its not because of bitter shippers thats a honestly a lame excuse. Its because the writers are putting a popular character with someone who is not even that well developed. Yes people Malia is not a well developed character if anything she’s a rushed character that some are willing to ignore the obvious and only pay attention to the fact that she’s hooking up with a popular character and is a bad ass. As i said Stalia makes no sense and this article points out everything that is wrong with this ship.

    1. I agree about the writers doing a poor job with Malia. Stiles is a fan favorite and like it or not, the creators of a show have a responsibility to the fans. They don’t have to cater to them necessarily but at least be aware of what works and what doesn’t. And this obviously doesn’t work.

  7. omg wtf is that article??!
    Yes Stiles didn’t look happy when he talked about Malia sneaking around because that meant being with her and LYNIG to her, did you watch the whole scene?!!
    As for Stiles back, it was probably only nails marks, otherwise do you really think Scott, his best friend, would have said nothing?!
    And Shelley quote, it was a comparaison, yes Malia is agressive doesn’t mean she is abusive or that Stalia is an abusive relationship. Man, this article is such bullishit

    1. Switch genders in the scenario. Say Malia was a guy, and someone was saying he sneaks into their room and bed at night, spoons them (at the least) and leaves scratch marks, and explains that situation in that uncertain, uncomfortable tone of voice that Stiles is using in that scene when he explains it to Scott. Would you still shrug it off to, oh, it’s probably only nail marks?

      1. Many fans have pointed out that if the genders were reversed, viewers would be horrified. A teenaged boy crawling into a sleeping girl’s bed? I don’t think so. Either way it’s horrible but somehow, as evidenced with the lack of concern over Derek’s being taken advantage of by Kate, Teen Wolf doesn’t think it’s a big deal or wrong.

        1. Absolutely this! It’s like TW and some of the fans don’t think that men can be abused by women, or raped by women. If you switch the genders and it’s not okay, it should still be not okay the other way around.

        2. Lack of concern? In the show or in the fandom? Because everyone I know who watches the show, no matter what they ship or don’t ship, is so empathetic to Derek and so indignant on his behalf that he keeps getting manipulated and abused in this way.

          But if you’re talking about in the show, then I SO agree. Everyone really brushes off what’s happened to Derek. I feel like they don’t take it into account when they deal with him or judge him. And there hasn’t been any exploration at all, or character development, of Derek possibly trying to get past that point in his life, trying to stop blaming himself for it. Like, he really needs therapy, or maybe just a supportive environment and supportive people surrounding him to help him when he needs it. My poor baby Derek :'(

    2. If Stiles was my son? I’d be marching him down to the Police and pressing charges against Malia.

      This ticks all kinds of boxes in the ‘very wrong’ category. The only reason they are currently getting away with it is because of the stereotype that “all teen boys want sex no matter what even when it’s of dubious consent.”

  8. Let me explain you a thing: while this relationship has its faults (as all the relationships on this show do), it is not nonconsensual or abusive. As Janet stated, if the marks on his back were serious (as in actual were-creature claw marks), Scott would have said something as Stiles’ best friend. But, alas, he did not. The scene in “Echo House”, while it may have been unneeded, was also consensual. If neither Malia or Stiles wanted it to go any further, they would have stopped it. Malia may have been a were-coyote for however many years, she still knows what makes her comfortable and what doesn’t. And have you even been paying attention this season? Obviously not. Malia is quick to adapt and with the scene in the first episode, she probably payed attention to what the girls were doing around her and copied- THAT AND STILES AND SCOTT AND KIRA AND (PROBABLY) LYDIA HAVE BEEN TEACHING HER HOW TO BE HUMAN AGAIN LIKE???? Anyway, regarding the scene where Stiles is talking about Malia sneaking in: He’s a big boy, if he didn’t want Malia there, he would tell her. Did you not see the scene in the first episode where is told her that they don’t leave friends behind? Obviously they’ve talked about the rights and wrongs. If Stiles was uncomfortable, he would have said something. He doesn’t look happy because he’s unsure of their relationship ship label: are they together? are they friends with benefits? HE DOESN’T KNOW! He doesn’t look happy because if they are more, then he’s been lying to her- AND HE DOESN’T WANT TO. He wants to tell her about Peter. Also, Scott doesn’t look “aghast” he’s surprised, and a little proud? He obviously didn’t know that Stiles and Malia’s relationship was physical yet, but once again- he’s not concerned, because he knows that Stiles can handle himself.

    Another thing: Shelley didn’t mean that Malia would actually punch Stiles or grab him or whatever. She meant that Malia doesn’t know how to show affection like a normal person. I highly doubt Malia will actually punch Stiles again, because they’ve been over the rights and wrongs of human life.

    Another another thing: Coyotes reach sexual maturity before humans, Malia isn’t stupid and would have seen it but may not have taken part in it while she was living in the wild. She could easily transfer coyote mating rituals into human sex.

    1. You definitely make valid points. I just feel that the writers are leaving too much to be assumed by the viewers (such as your assumptions regarding Stiles and Malia discussing boundaries etc.) and the very ambiguity of their relationship is, to me, a dangerous thing. Without clear consent, their relationship can be viewed as triggering and I think its irresponsible of the Teen Wolf writers to be so vague with consent.

    2. My problem with your points is that you seem to be indicating that men aren’t capable of being abused/raped by women? But it happens. I’m not saying that’s the case here, I’m saying that the broad statements you are making imply a very dangerous thought process. Also, at the point in Echo House when they maybe-did-maybe-didn’t have sex (after just having met)…Stiles had been severely sleep deprived for weeks, dosed with pills to keep him awake, dosed with an injection to knock him out (prior to this he had been awake for at least 36+ hours), and had been mentally tortured by hallucinations due to the sacrifice and the nogitsune for WEEKS. I honestly do not consider that legitimate consent in any way, shape, or form. Whether or not he regretted it later, it doesn’t count as consent at the time.

      1. Not once did I ever say that women aren’t capable of raping/abusing men, and it’s most definitely not the case here. They didn’t “just meet”- a lot of people seem to forget that she was introduced before that and that Stiles did know her before, obviously not as well as he did after “Echo House”, but he did know her. Whether or not you consider it to be consent or not means absolutely nothing, because it’s canon that it was/still is. Honestly, I don’t believe that they had sex (even if Jeff and Dylan say that it did happen, I don’t like thinking that way- because, yes, it does make me uncomfortable) but unfortunately, that’s the canon we were given.

        A lot of people seem to forget who Stiles is and who his character is. Stiles is very outspoken, if he doesn’t agree with something, he’ll make it known. It seems funny to me that in other ships’ headcanons, Stiles is the outspoken one even though his werewolf girl/boyfriend(s) and/or banshee girlfriend could easily take him out. But funnily enough when it comes to Stalia, all of a sudden Stiles can’t speak for himself and everybody has to take care of him.

        I don’t really agree with the pace that their relationship is going either, but I’m not the one who decides these things, Jeff and the other writers are.

        (An afterthought: And if they are “driving fans away” or whatever, it’s only a tiny bit because Teen Wolf has been picked up for a fifth season, so by saying that Stalia is ruining the show or whatever is ridiculous.)

        1. s4 has the lowest average rating view of all seasons + 6 of 12 episodes are in the TOP10 episodes with the lowest ratings ever in TW + the season finale had the lowest rating of all finales.
          S5 can be the end of TW if it keep like that.
          However is not just Sterek shipper, even if a lot I saw were from sterek, but stadia shippers, scallion shippers, Allison fans and even Danny fans that are annoyed with Jeff. So, yeah…. Way to go Jeff and MTV!

      2. Exactly. The orderly said it was Haldol he was giving Stiles, it’s a major anti-psychotic, not something light and fluffy, with just one dose you aren’t supposed to drive, operate machinery, and you can’t be held accountable for any legal documents signed in that period, so there is no way that Stiles could fully consent to anything.

    3. It’s like u snuck into my brain and pulled out everything I have been saying on the teen wolf Facebook page and YouTube videos! Like why can’t these shippers get it through there heads! Yes there’s a lot unexplained but did u ever think maybe they r gunna explain her in season 5 if there’s one u no! Shelley Hennig laughed and said that’s for season 5’in her interview about explaining malia in depth more! Soooo u no! It’s so frustrating and honestly I think malia would be the last person to harm stiles! I don’t think it’s problematic at all! I love It! And Jeff’s leaving a lot to the imagination cuz maybe he thought ppl would use there nice imagination and think about what is really being said I. The episodes! also coyotes r very faithful and loyal animals they r also very smart and quick to adapt to new environments!

      1. The nogitsune talked about coyotes craving something, as bad as the kitsune and others.
        I don’t see that as a good thing.
        And she is a werecoyote, not a coyote. She must have a strong human side, not an animal side.

    4. Stiles generally doesn’t seem to take shit from anyone, but this is a very delicate situation. First of all: victims of abuse, male or female, usually do not realize that what they are experiencing is abuse. They often think that they’re just too sensitive, not realizing that what’s happening isn’t normal for a healthy relationship. Stiles has no experience with being in a relationship, so he has no basis to judge from. That being said, it is also not always apparent to third party observers (in this case, Scott) that abuse is occurring unless it is very obvious.

      I find it very strange that Stiles, who has been blatantly thirsty since season one, would sound so unenthusiastic about sex when he’s finally having it. He doesn’t sound excited that his girlfriend is sneaking into his bed at night to initiate sexy fun times. He sounds upset. It sounds like she’s coming to him, uninvited, and he’s not saying “no” because he thinks he’s supposed to want this. I think he feels pressured to stay by Malia’s side because he’s the only person in the pack she feels any sort of connection to, and he fears that if he hurts her, she’ll leave and run off into the woods as a coyote again.

      The very fact that Malia doesn’t know how to behave in a human relationship shows that she shouldn’t be in one. The fact that Stiles, who is her only anchor to society, is the one she’s in a relationship makes it even worse. There is a vast imbalance of power in their relationship. Malia is stronger physically, but Stiles has the psychological advantage, even if he would never intentionally use that advantage against her. It would be like a therapist engaging in a sexual/romantic relationship with a patient. Instead of teaching Malia to function independently in society, it is teaching her to be dependent on Stiles, who already has a lot of issues on his own.

  9. Yo, Malia and Stiles could have been a hella cute couple had they done a better job at her character. (I ship Dylan with Shelley, tho) Like, waited a few more months, do some slow build with them. But now it’s just gone to hell. These writers and the show runner need to get their shit together.
    Every site teasing about S4 has said, along with Jeff himself and some of the actors/actresses, that “season 4 will involve a lot more romance and joking around. We’re getting back to what we had in season 1.” Well, shit, I didn’t think Stiles being in a relationship with a 9 year old girl was part of it. (if it’s in the head, that’s all that matters, no matter what she looks like on the outside. Coyotes usually don’t live that long, anyways. Typically 14 years in the wild. She lived there for 8.)
    Plus, Scott doesn’t ever question Stiles on anything. After his outburst in 3A, Scott thinks that just because Stiles is having sex with someone, he must be ecstatic. But Stiles LITERALLY SAID, “Right on, right?” in full blown sarcasm. Not to mention Scott’s reaction was more of just shock. I didn’t see a single other emotion. He even mouthed “holy shit.” If he was really happy for Stiles, he would of smiled and patted him on the back. (mind you, the upper area) It would of been like the “hottest girl” scene.
    We just all need some clarification with everything because TW is legit driving their fans away, and if not that, then at each other.

    1. I agree with basically everything you said. I also feel that Teen Wolf is slowly driving its fans away and unless the writing improves, season 4 could be in big trouble. I just can’t help but worry about Stiles and wish that he and Malia were given actually healthy relationships rather than this.

  10. I also think it is a purposefully abusive relationship and is likely to fail. The problem isn’t necessarily what’s on the show, but the silence on the issues and playing along with the show from the writers/cast/pr etc. My opinion is that they are showing all sorts of problematic relationships and have them end badly because of those problems. Even Scott/Allison was problematic (lies, making decisions for others without their input, trying to restrict someone’s autonomy because they need to be “protected,” etc). I think they expect us to pick up on this and learn how to identify problematic relationships for ourselves without needing to be told, but I’m not sure how effective that is.

    1. If that’s the case (which I doubt, because they seem to really enjoy patting themselves on the back for other things, like “representation”), then it is very ineffective. “Lessons” like that need to actually be addressed in canon for them to work – they can’t just “assume” the average viewer will pick up on it and understand. Anyway, we never see repercussions for things in this show…unless it’s convenient for the plot. Scott betrays Derek and forces him to bite Gerard? No biggy. Erica and Boyd die? Who cares. The Alpha Twins were responsible for at least Boyd, if not Erica? Nah, Lydia and Danny can still f* ’em. Stiles kills a bunch of people in the hospital while possessed? No charges filed, despite literally dozens of witnesses and probably camera evidence.

      1. Exactly why I pointed out “writers/cast/pr etc.” PR and interview in particular are full of lies and misdirection. The show relies (too much) on show vs tell where it tells you one thing (Stalia is cute, Stiles is Malia’s mate!) and show you something completely different (problematic relationship) and expect you to be able to tell the difference without them saying anything. It also uses outcomes that are a bit too subtle. For the twins, the more aggressive one ended up dying and the other was left an omega in the end. They got their comeuppance in the end, but a complete season apart from the big thing they did wrong.

        Scott using Derek is likely going to come back again either towards the end of this season or next season. We’ve already seen signs of it in his other plans with Deaton that go behind people’s backs and lying to young!Derek about his family and Allison about her mom. Scott’s dark arc is based on character flaws he inherited from his father (this was the point of his Agent McCall’s secret) http://ravewulf.tumblr.com/post/89672547785/cupidsbower-auntpol-druiddblosjo-okay-so (as well as other metas collected in my “seeing the whole board” tag http://ravewulf.tumblr.com/tagged/seeing-the-whole-board/chrono)

        1. If anyone needed more proof Scott is like his father (and that this will be very important later), this scene between young!Derek, Stiles, and Agent McCall is a PERFECT visual parallel to another scene between Derek, Stiles, and Scott in S3A. They are positioned similarly with similar lighting, wearing extremely similar clothes from one scene to the other, and Stiles does the EXACT same motion moving his hand to point his thumb towards Derek in both.
          http://flower-of-the-desert.tumblr.com/post/90762775254/no-but-look-theyre-even-dressed-almost-the-same

          There’s also this scene from season 2 where Deaton says “A puppet” (the camera switches to Scott) “And a puppeteer” (the camera switches to Deaton).
          http://flower-of-the-desert.tumblr.com/post/90798769064/technologykilledrealityxxxxx

          There is so much going on in Teen Wolf beyond the superficial, but you really have to analyze it to find this stuff.

      2. Your comment made me realize that Stiles SHOULD be arrested for the mayhem at the hospital. OMG why did I not think about the CCTV? This show is so lackadaisical with its continuity.

    2. Yeah… if you truly believe that Stiles and Malia have been paired in order to give as an accurate portrayal of f/m domestic abuse then you might as well stop watching right now because its pretty clear for everyone who doesn’t hate the ship (or are mostly indifferent towards it), that this really isn’t the route this show is gonna take with their relationship.

      Jeff wants people to love Malia pretty much all season 4 online interviews have been about that. Do you really think he is going to go out of his way to make sure Malia is labelled as an abuser to a fan favourite like Stiles? I know people think he’s this mastermind and write really extensive meta about the simplest things he does but even this would just be counterproductive especially since its clear they plan on keeping Shelley and Malia around for as long as the shows still on air.

      1. Having a werewolf hunter seduce you in order to burn your family alive just because you are werewolves isn’t exactly an accurate portrayal of real world abuse either, but it still makes a statement.

        As for what anyone says about the relationships in interviews and articles, they did the same thing for Jennifer Blake and Derek before the big reveal that she was the darach. To put it plainly, interviews and PR are a bunch of lies and misdirection. Shelley said Stiles was Malia’s mate when Jeff previously said there’s no such thing as mates in the Teen Wolf universe. From what has actually happened on the show, Malia *thinks* Stiles is her mate because that’s how she would interpret their relationship as a coyote. The thing is, she’s a WEREcoyote transitioning into human society and he is a human, so mates doesn’t apply. Teen Wolf PR isn’t going to let you in on that because they want you to buy into the storyline until they make a big reveal (exactly the same as they did for Jennifer Blake).

        1. The key difference between the press tour about Jennifer/Haley and the press tour about Malia/Shelley is that they did not spend weeks before the the show started talking about how great Jennifer is. They did not write more than one article telling people they’re gonna love her and they sure as hell didn’t have more than one interview practically begging people to give her a chance.

          All they had before the show were a couple articles about Haley being hired and people didn’t even know who she was gonna be, most of the fandom thought she was gonna be a Hale. Once their unnecessary relationship was underway Hoechlin, Haley and Jeff just talked about how nice Jennifer is and how Dennifer was truluv or w/e. They did not go out of their way to promote Jennifer the same way they are doing or have been doing with Malia.

          If I’m being honest, it sounds like you’re saying the show went to all the effort of not only signing Shelley but bumping her up to series regular AND adding her to the credits just so they could continue their elaborate scheme of misdirecting the audience into think Malia won’t turn out to be an abuser or even a villain. And all that just sounds a way too far fetched for me. I mean, do I think Stalia will last? No, but do I think its gonna turn into an abuse storyline before this season is over? Not even a little bit. This is Teen Wolf, if something bad was happening between both Stiles and Malia in terms of abuse they would not have subtly implied it in a throwaway scene they would have shoved it in your face, much like they did last ep by having a 35 year old women kiss a 19 year old.

          1. In itself, the fact that she’s a regular and in the credits doesn’t indicate that she’s a nice person. Jackson was in the credits for two seasons and was almost universally recognized as a dick. I suppose that would have changed in the third season if the actor hadn’t left. But yeah, I agree that JD wants everyone to love Malia as much as he does. He’s probably thinking her violating Stiles bed-space is cute and funny. And because JD DOES love Malia so much, it’s unlikely he’s going to realize that a lot of people don’t think consent issues and dub-con are the best way to win people over to her.

      2. Ik I have no idea what this lady is writing about its ridiculous! Honestly!!!! This angers me.. Ya if ur gunna write a article like this well then up should just stop cuz this is not ok teen wolf is not going to have a abusive relationship.. At least not with these 2! And Shelley is gunna be around till the end of the series! Omg I would love that sooo much!!!

        1. Disagreement is fine, but you need to be more respectful with how you engage people you disagree with. Your comments are verging on breaking our policies: https://thegeekiary.com/policies

          Please engage more civilly in the future.

          -Admin Angel

  11. People are arguing back and forth about Stalia and while most are supportive of the relationship others are not. One thing that everyone is arguing about is the whole mind of a child thing while someone like Taylor has pointed out that Malia has been a coyote for half her life and coyotes sexually mature faster than humans. Now while this pairing makes no sense to me I would just like to point out some things that is wrong with this pairing. Coyotes mature sexually faster than humans however I am bringing up the mind of a child thing, Malia has not been a human for what 10 years ??? So shouldnt she have a mind of a child ??? Or be more animal like ??? And sure we saw parts of Stiles mentioning that he taught her a few things but shouldn’t she I don’t know be more child like or animal like ??? Now most would argue that it has only been two episodes but from what I am seeing I have a feeling that even if Malia gets any character development it would most likely be about her relationship with Stiles ad maybe with Peter if we’re lucky. Another thing I like to mention is the whole scratching thing. Someone said that it could have been nail marks but if they were then Scott wouldnt have had that shocking expression. To me Stiles was unhappy as the article pointed it out but at the same time that might be me reading to much into it. I just wished that the writers would stop focusing on the romance and focus on them growing a bit. Stiles needs to heal from the whole nogitsune fiasco, Scott and Lydia with the fact that they lost Allison, Malia becoming human etc. Plus am I the only one wondering whats gonna happen once Malia gets what she wants ??? Cause remember guys the whole reason she even helped Stiles was because she wanted someone to help her turn back into a coyote ??? Another thing that bugs me is why was she in Eichen house ??? !!! Seriously am I the only one who wonders that ??? Teen wolf needs to take a step back and work on character development and not on romance that makes no sense at all.

  12. While I don’t agree with Stiles and Lydia having any sort of relationship, besides being great friends. I feel like that ship has sailed and it’s just another hetero relationship that has no chemistry.

    Stiles and Malia has felt forced from the beginning. That’s even before you add the weird squickyness of Malia coming into Stiles bedroom while he’s sleeping and leaving marks that he clearly isn’t happy about. Neither one of them are in any way shape or form ready for a relationship. Her character clearly doesn’t care about anyone but Stiles and Stiles keeps making excuses for her. He let’s her get away with more then he would let anyone else. I feel like once again, TW is changing characters to fit into a romance, which I have serious issues with. On top of the interviews Shelly keeps doing that make me cringe more and more every time I read something new.

    My problem with Stalia, lies with Malia and how she was presented. Along with the Stalia storyline and the consent issues, that I hope are addressed. But, well this is TW.

  13. To be honest, Malia is to well-adjust for having been a coyote for 8 years, it’s confusing how she could be in regular classes at school, she would be put in remedial classes or even be home-schooled with a tutor, her being so well-adjusted should make people start to question. It’s like they can’t seem to keep her consistent, she’s either this normal 17 year old and then others she’s following her animal instinct, which is confusing since coyotes aren’t confrontational by nature. Malia seems abusive and I have a feeling Stiles is worried about saying ‘no’ to her even if he wants to. If Stalia was like Scira (Scott/Kira) then maybe I could give it a chance but from the way most other relationships are portrayed in the show I’m going to pass. Then we have the whole Draeden (Braeden/Derek) thing coming about, he was just de-aged and the whole thing with Kate and then becomes normal again, but he’s supposed to be okay enough with starting something with someone he doesn’t know, again. I’m not sure the Teen Wolf writers understand what a ‘healthy’ relationship is.

    1. Yeah oh my god, ANOTHER relationship for Derek??? What??? It’s so unnecessary and stupid right now for him to be even /thinking/ of a relationship with anyone! I’m honestly considering not watching the show anymore, it’s gotten so bad. Which is just heartbreaking for me because I used to encourage people to watch it and I loved it and now it’s…this. I’ve seen soap operas with better continuity than this

  14. Yeah no. I don’t agree with the idea that Malia is abusing Stiles at all. He was very worried about lying to her thats why he immediately brought Peter up when Scott asked them if they were dating. Also if what she did to her back was cause for concern there is no way Scott would’ve just said nothing. And he sure as hell wouldn’t have nonchalantly asked if they were dating right after.

    The scene pretty much infers that Stiles had consented but was expressing concern about lying to her about something VERY important while engaging in whatever kind of “relationship” they are currently engaging in and not because Malia is coming into his bedroom and he’s too afraid to tell her to stop. That’s not what you should have gotten from that scene but then again teen wolf is the land of shoddy writing and plot holes so I can see why some people have arrived at this conclusion. I’m not saying that explicit consent isn’t always going to better. I’m just saying that sloppy writing does not automatically mean abuse.

    1. When Stiles starts telling Scott about Malia sneaking into his room, he doesn’t sound like he’s bringing up the subject out of any guilt about lying to Malia about Peter. Instead, he sounds disturbed and uncomfortable, even pissed off about her showing up each night.

      Even Scott’s, “That sounds okay,” doesn’t sound comfortable. It sounds like Scott’s looking for reassurance, as if the potential situation Stiles is describing (i.e. Malia’s unwelcome visits) is something that’s emotionally awkward at the very least. They’re not exactly high-fiving each other. They’re discussing some not-okay behavior that neither of them are sure what to do about.

      IMO the scene doesn’t imply consent as much as it implies confusion. Stiles doesn’t sound like he’s okay with Malia showing up in his bed practically every night. But he seems like he doesn’t know what he can do to make it stop. Maybe that’s just bad writing, but it’s also a really unpleasant tint to put on a relationship that they’re trying to sell the audience.

      1. Nope. Its just really bad writing. The scene was not meant to be a subtle cry for help, it was about Stiles having an issue with their growing “relationship” while keeping something very important from her. Otherwise as soon as Scott asked if they were dating, Stiles wouldn’t have brought up Peter, He would’ve just said no we aren’t and he would’ve at least said something about her irritating or hurting him but thats not what happened.

        This is Stiles we’re talking about here, even in situations where he’s been terrified he still has managed to express himself very vocally when something is a problem for him. If this was another show that was equipped to deal with this kind of storyline then I would be inclined to agree that this was supposed to be a subtle scene about inappropriate behaviour. But this is Teen Wolf we’re talking about here and a lot of their writing is about as subtle as a brick to the face. If something bad was in fact happening, this scene would’ve played out a hell of a lot differently than it did.

        1. I agree with you that the writing is weak if not outright sloppy on Teen Wolf. I have to insist, however, that the very ambiguity of the relationship between Stiles and Malia (is it fine? is it not ok?) due to poor writing can be extremely triggering for some viewers. Therefore, I feel that the writers need to rectify this as soon as possible.

          Also, Stiles is a strong, outspoken character; you’re absolutely right there. But IF there is an abusive level to his relationship with Malia, we can’t assume that he would react in that manner. Victims of abuse come in all shapes, sizes, and personalities sadly, and how they react in one situation could be entirely different than how they react to the actual abuse. That’s just an important thing to keep in mind.

          1. Oh I agree 100% I wasn’t trying to infer that abuse victims can’t be outspoken, I worded that wrong so my apologies. What I was trying to say is that in the context of teen wolf and how Jeff & co handle Stiles; they always give us an emotional insight into how he’s feeling more than any other character on the show. So if the show had decided to portray an abuse storyline involving him they would’ve made it very clear how Stiles felt instead of leaving it open to interpretation.

            1. I don’t think the show is trying to portray an abusive relationship. I think the show IS portraying a relationship that could appear to be abusive, but that they intend to appear as cute, and it worries me that maybe they don’t know the difference.

  15. Yeah! I wanted to address the idea that Stiles and Derek are one of the few romances that would actually make sense. This is why I started shipping Sterek, to be honest. Unlike many of the other Sterek fans…this is my first slash pairing. I, also, didn’t come it it immediately. What made me love Sterek was that Stiles and Derek are well-suited to one another, complimentary in their skills and have built something like a real relationship as a foundation for romance. When Derek hooked up with Jennifer in S3A just as Stiles was talking Scott out of setting himself on fire…it suddenly hit me how perfect Stiles would be for Derek, how supportive. And then…Jeff actually delivered on that support when Boyd was killed. In a room that contained his sister, his girlfriend and his last surviving pack member…it was Stiles that offered Derek the comforting hand on his shoulder. It was Stiles who went to him. Just as we see Derek thinking mostly of Stiles in S3B. I’m not saying that is necessarily romantic…what I’m saying is it is a real foundation. And we don’t get that in Teen Wolf. Teen Wolf delivers very juvenile and emphermeral romances…it is intense puppy devotion…or hot sex. Stydia might have made some sense. And Malia might have been an interesting character. I really like her, to be honest. But Dylan seems to be struggling with the whole idea of her. And the plan to create “instant chemistry” with Shelley and Dylan has to be a “management” choice. Because I can’t believe truly creative people would come up with this nonsense. It just reeks of “higher ratings” hopes. And, boy, is that going to backfire on them.

  16. Are people really decrying Stalia as abusive and then saying Sterek would make more sense? You know, Derek, the guy who tends to slam Stiles against walls, using his superior strength, who slammed his head against a steering wheel, who demeans his intelligence and strength at any give occasion? That Derek? You compare Derek, who in the latest episode grabbed Stiles and whammed him against a door face first, to Malia who scratched his back during sex? Wow, this fandom is really nuts.

    1. The difference is that Sterek had a really organic character development compared to Stalia. And if you read any of the Sterek shippers meta or fic you’ll see people who want Derek and Stiles to heal each other because they can, they have the potential. They have many things in common, and if you remember Stiles was apparently the only one who knew about what Kate did, and he’s the only one who knows about Paige. It’s weird every time we learn something about Derek, it’s always Stiles who ends up knowing and therefore having the means to actually help him with his issues (if Teen Wolf could at least take a minute to deal with all the characters’ issues they created).

      And about the scene in the latest episode, I’m sorry but it actually makes sense. In that scene, we don’t have the present Derek, we have a teenage Derek. All the character development that happened in all 3 seasons is completely erased,so you can bet we’re gonna go back to the beginning.

      1. ……lol, ok, but neither stiles nor derek actually LIKE eachother. Its been proven. Stiles has, in the past, wanted to kill derek, wanted to leave derek to die. he was only saving/helping derek because it was what SCOTT wanted, not because of some super secret feelings he may have for the “big bad sour wolf”

        sterek makes no sense. stalia does.

        1. “but neither stiles nor derek actually LIKE eachother. Its been proven. Stiles has, in the past, wanted to kill derek, wanted to leave derek to die. he was only saving/helping derek because it was what SCOTT wanted, not because of some super secret feelings he may have for the “big bad sour wolf””

          Well, I’m guessing you haven’t seen the season 4 finale (even though many many scenes before that would completely invalidate what you’ve just said. This just shows how little credibility you have. Even people who don’t ship Sterek know that they care about each other.) Anyway watch it and you will be proven wrong. It’s that simple.

          If you still think the same well it just proves you’re a hater.

          Have a good day.

  17. I don’t know what the writers are trying to do with Stalia, but the scene where Stiles showed the scratches to Scott felt quite open to interpretation. My mom, bro, and sis, all casual viewers of Teen Wolf (they think im nuts that i invest energy in the show) voiced their opinion about Stalia, not necessarily that she’s going to be evil, but how her relationship is being portrayed. They stated the concern, which other fans have said too, that if Malia was teenaged male character who would be sneaking at 2am in a teenaged girls bedroom for sex, scratching her back, etc. a lot of people would be losing their mind over consent issues and stuff

    as far as im concerned, i don’t hate Malia, nor like her that much, im mostly neutral about her. I would’ve preferred that she be introduced as a friend to Stiles before going on all out romantic, like they did with Kira and Scott…some fans are also saying that Stiles’ acting OOC in order for Stalia to work, like him being the little spoon (which he showed being upset about in episode 2) or making up for Malia’s responses about leaving Lydia and Kira as ‘progress’. For a lot of fans, Stiles is a character that doesn’t take it from anybody and stands up for what he wants…so him being upset, whether it’s about lying to Malia about Peter, or too much 2am sex, doesn’t feel right (depends on how fans saw the scene)…That’s why Sterek is popular…please stop saying Derek shoved his head on the steering wheel, what else was a character like Derek supposed to do after Stiles paraded his body in front of Danny? since then both character have developed…see the word ‘developed’? something we haven’t seen in Stalia yet…Stiles not only provided comfort to Derek in S3A when Boyd died, he also stood up to him in the hospital, and 3B showed Stiles in Derek’s dream…a relationship that develops through the seasons is what fans not…even Stydia has developed…as far as Stalia is concerned, to some fans, it’s coming off as obsessive from Malia’s side…don’t go on about Stydia being obsessive too cos im sure a lot of fans criticized Stiles (even Stydia shippers)on his behavior

    There’s no denying that the viewership for Teen Wolf has fallen, it’s an MTV show so it will get a S5, but falling back to S1 viewership means that something has def gone wrong with Teen Wolf…even if all Sterek shippers stop watching the show, i don’t believe such a difference in US viewership would’ve occurred. People, (Shippers and no shippers alike) have stopped watching because it’s become a jumbled mess. Some might say Malia is the reason, but the truth is that for some fans, Teen Wolf quality dwindled back in S3 and the things happening in S4 is just too much…Teen Wolf itself is pushing it’s fans away cos they are still active in the fandom they love (creating fanwork etc) but they just can’t take the senseless writing on TV anymore, which some fans are saying feels to be ripped from fanfiction, de-gayed etc and then presented in S4

    1. The viewership has fallen? Based on what? The latest episode that aired against the highly anticipated premiere of Under the Dome? One blip doesn’t make a trend. Let’s wait a week or two before we declare a failure. Also, as Jeff Davis said, only Teen Wolf’s 12-34 demo ratings matter, not the overall viewership or 18-49 demo in which MTV is not interested, targeting teenagers first and foremost. And there, they are one of the most successful shows these days. Davis himself said that they are in no danger of being canceled. They do twice as better as MTV’s other shows, Faking It and Awkward, and they just won a tax lottery, with 25% of budget return. That’s not a show on the decline, no matter what Stalia haters think.

      1. I think what Farid-Ul-Haq meant is that the ratings went from 2.18 millions viewers to 1.55 millions viewers between the first 2 episodes. It has nothing to do with Stalia and it is very close to the lowest rating which is 1.21 and goes back to season 1. And yes, maybe the numbers have something to do with Under The Dome coming back but it’s also not going anywhere either since the season only just started so what’s gonna happen ?

  18. One of the main stories driving Teen Wolf is the issue of consent. The show has consistently brought up issues of consent and abuse, but it’s subtle, it expects the viewer to pick up on the issue for themselves which is something I’m a little divided on. On the one hand I respect what they’re trying to do, but the fall-out from Dennifer left many feeling awful due to the number of people who refused to believe this was an example of non-con, particularly victims of abuse who have spoken out on multiple occasions. Eventually Haley Webb spoke out, announcing that she had thought it was very obvious Jennifer had “whammied” Derek. But it comes down to trust and audience expectation. The show suffers from its title, genre and the fact that it airs on MTV. People don’t expect a show about werewolves to tackle such serious issues in such a subtle way, so I think many people don’t trust what they’re seeing (I know I didn’t at first, until the pattern became to obvious to deny). I disagree with your implication that Stydia was being hinted at in 3b, I think it’s part of the series pattern of subverting dangerous romantic tropes (such as the infamous Nice Guy trope). I mean, you say yourself “finally getting together”. Why finally? I think this series is trying to get us to question our expectations and assumptions. Stydia started out as a Nice Guy trope, but has very much developed into platonic territory, thus subverting the trope and turning it into something healthy and equal for both characters. As it stands, Lydia and Stiles have become exactly what the other needs. Dennifer took a sweet English teacher, paired her with a bloodied-up, very masculine Derek, and gave us an uncomfortable sex scene that we’ve seen in a thousand action films before, only to later turn it on its head with the Darach reveal, thus emphasizing that ANYONE can be a victim of abuse. So far, Malia/Stiles fits this trend. Note Scott’s expression in the scene above: Stiles is unhappy, but Scott assumes this is a good thing – he’s a guy, he’s getting laid! I think this is going to be a case of one party (Malia) not fully comprehending what defines consent and the other (Stiles) not understanding why he, as a guy, isn’t enjoying sex with a beautiful girl. It challenges the toxic notion that all men should enjoy sex regardless. It’s an old technique of showing us things we’ve seen many times before in a way that presents it as something new and startling – that anyone can be a victim, equality, power balance is important, and consent are always important. I’m happy with the way the show has handled these issues so far with Stydia, Scallison, Sterek, Dennifer etc., so I’m willing to trust they’ll handle Stalia’s story well, too (for the time being, anyway).

  19. Teen Wolf has a problem with making Sterek canon because the ship involves two males, but they have absolutely no issue with making a creepy abusive relation canon. As long as it’s not gay, right? -_-

      1. Actually it seems that you came here just to troll and you probably won’t read the policies anyway so I’m banning you. Please don’t return.

        -Admin Angel

  20. I don’t have a problem with Malia as a character. “117” made me start to like her. There are things about her that do not make any sense to me. How the hell is she in high school? She was a coyote from the age of 9 to the age of 17. And the nogitsune mentioning the coyote being a trickster makes me weary of her.

    Stalia on the other hand is something I am against completely. That initial ‘hook up’ in the Eichen House basement was just revolting. I don’t care if it was just kissing or if sex actually happened. I love Dylan for refusing to do a sex scene. And I’m sorry, Stiles should be recovering from being possessed still and Malia should not be looking for a relationship either because of the whole being a coyote for years thing. She shouldn’t be a fully functioning teenager.
    Let’s not forget the whole abuse thing. Sorry, but her roughness IS abuse. Shelley’s interview where she mentioned ‘mates’ was the last straw with that. I don’t know if that’s the direction they’re going on the show or if that was what she looked up about actual coyotes, but it did spark a theory about Malia possibly trying to turn Stiles with her claws.
    Stiles doesn’t even look into it at all. He had a pained expression when he showed Scott the marks on his back. It wasn’t an ‘oww, that hurts’ expression either. It was a ‘I’m done with this’ expression. He didn’t even give an answer when Scott asked “you are together right?” or whatever he said exactly.
    Malia would be a much better character if they weren’t using Stiles as a romantic/ possibly sexual crutch for her. NO. I could keep going, but I think I’ll just stop there. I’ve made most of my point made.

  21. I honestly don’t think any of this is true at all. The scene’s purpose was to show the development between Stiles and Malia and to introduce Peter, it had nothing to do with consented sex. Stiles wasn’t complaining about her being in his room, he was complaining about lying to her and Scott didn’t look at all frightened when her saw his back, he just looked shocked. Also Stiles knows how to talk to Malia and if he didn’t want her in his room, he’d tell her to stop and she would, because she trusts him and wants his approval.

    The relationship isn’t abusive at all, they just got a bit carried away in bed, which everyone does. And in Shelley’s interview she says Malia is MORE LIKELY to hit him, not actually, and she says mates because that’s a term and relationship Malia understands. People just don’t want to accept them as a couple.

    1. Some people interpret that scene differently, and that’s everyone’s right. But I think it’s unfair to brush it off as “people just don’t want to accept them as a couple”. Some people may not like Stalia but that doesn’t mean everyone who sees consent issues in that scene are just shippers, any more than people who don’t see consent issues are just Malia apologists. People should be able to discuss what they perceive as dub-con or non-consent without being minimized like that.

  22. I don’t think Jeff doesn’t want to make it canon because it’s two male he already done that. I think it because when he stared to write this show his plan wasn’t for stiles and Derek being together the fandom just made that up he had other relationship but we ruin them. I mean where did that idea come form they basically hated each other in the first season and now they just put up with each other . And yes stiles was nice when Boyd died but anyone would have done that it just stiles is nice. I rather stiles be with no one. Or maybe Lydia I mean they grown to friends and he loves her and it possible she might have feelings for him. I don’t understand I people still ship sterek Jeff has already made or clear it not going to happen and he said hold out hope for stydia…

  23. The show is basically trying to force Stalia down our throats. Everytime the two characters had a conversation or interaction, sappy-romantic music would play and the scene would slow down. It’s one thing to have two characters grow to have a relationship, but it’s quite another to smash them together and then in our faces while screaming “YOU LIKE THEM, JUST ADMIT THIS IS PERFECT.”
    To be perfectly honest, I think that Malia and Kira have quite a bit more chemistry than Malia and Stiles. Not just from the dance scene (although: hello! talk about chemistry!) but from the way they fight together to the way that they talk to eachother Malira seems like a much more logical pairing if the writers are desperately looking to join her into a pairing.
    As for Stiles, it’s quite clear that he feels uncomfortable being Malia’s one human connection but that he also cares how she is coping. They have much more of a brother/sister relationship than a romantic one and it would be interesting to see how that would play out with Peter being her father. I’m not sure if the Stydia ship would sail, anymore (though I think this pairing would be diabolically adoreable) after Aiden’s surprising death. To be honest, I would love to see Lydia being cool with being single and coming into her own.

  24. I really want to like Malia, but it’s getting really hard to because we don’t know much about her. And this whole Stalia pairing really rubs me the wrong way, not because I’m both a Stydia and Sterek shipper, but because their relationship clearly isn’t healthy. It’s so rushed and just simply feels wrong and uncomfortable. While it’s nice to think about Stiles in a relationship, this one with Malia just isn’t working for me. It would have been nice to see a build-up to it throughout the season while we see Malia learning to adapt to high school and living among humans. I have high hopes for this season but the Stiles/Malia pairing needs to be fixed.

  25. I know I already left a comment but I wanted to add something else that some might not have noticed and forgot to add in my other comment.

    I think the reason why the creators are shoving Stalia down our throats is because Malia is the perfect, perfect female version of Derek.

    And I am not just talking about the way she acts, I am also talking about her and Derek’s background.

    Malia is responsible for her family’s death.

    Derek is responsible for his family’s death.

    Malia doesn’t trust anyone that much.

    Derek didn’t trust anyone that much.

    Malia has a living relative(s)

    Derek has living relatives.

    Malia has guilt.

    Derek has guilt.

    Malia punched and is going to be rough with Stiles.

    Derek punched and is rough with Stiles.

    See where I am going with this ???

    Now some will argue with me but just look at all the reasons I just listed and at both Derek and Malia’s characters and tell me that I am wrong.

    1. ITA. To a degree it was also true of Cora, but especially with Malia it’s obvious that Jeff Davis wants a safe het equivalent of Sterek and is attempting to hook Stiles up with a female Hale were-creature one way or another. The problem is, JD doesn’t seem to understand why the idea of Sterek works, so he’s assigned certain traits and background to Malia and he’s hoping to recreate Sterek based on that. But the chemistry and foundation aren’t there. There’s been no development of character or relationship. Malia and Stalia are badly written, and it feels like the characters have been rushed into a romance as a poor imitation of something JD doesn’t want to make canon.

      1. Couldn’t have said better myself. Its just sad that Jeff isn’t listening to the fans and would rather just shove a het of a female version of Derek wit Stiles and yet he doesn’t see that Sterek has so much potential because of their history where as Malia and Stalia makes no sense what so ever.

  26. Now my issue with Stalia, and Malia’s character as a whole, is as stated in above comments and the article: It was forced on us. It came literally out of left field at the last minute and was just thrown in with the plot of 3B. Not only that but realistically, even in a universe such as this and from a writer’s (of fanfiction but still a writer y’know) point of view, Malia should have the mind of a child no matter how much “development” she got by interacting with other animals in the wild. She would have no idea how to act like a human teenager and given how completely ambiguous Teen Wolf’s timeline is between seasons, I’m to the point of comparing it to the completely complicated three-in-one Legend of Zelda timeline because of that, she wouldn’t have the time to learn seeing as they were apparently starting up a new school year when S4 started. Three months during the summer does not make progress and if it wasn’t summer time between seasons that’s even less time.

    That aside, Stalia to me is like a crack fan pairing. And by that I mean characters that, in the context of the show, who would realistically have no kind of contact or romantic development with each other. Pairings such as very popular Inuyasha fan ships of Kagome and Sesshomaru or Sesshomaru and Miroku. Now while it is true these three characters have had scenes with each other the only contact they’ve had, as far as the manga goes as the last twenty episodes have not aired in the states yet and the anime isn’t all that true to the manga, is Kagome saying “Hey big brother!” to Sesshomaru in passing. Once. Miroku doesn’t even get that. Where fans get any sort of “relationship” development from that to the point of fighting the supporters of the actual canon pairings of Inuyasha/Kagome, Kagome/Koga and Miroku/Sango is beyond me.

    Even with all instances of it sounding like a very contrived fan pairing like the above examples set aside, Stalia is trying to be Sterek for all the wrong reasons. With the reveal that Malia is actually a Hale it now makes it possible to be a Sterek parallel. We now have the het equivalent to Sterek. But at what cost? Development, that’s what. As a Sterek shipper myself, and a shipper of slash/yaoi pairings in general, the allure of the pairing was not that it was slash or that they were two hot guys together (that is strictly a plus), it was because you could relate to the pairing. You could compare it to an actual, real life relationship. You could see the build up in it and it was believable and real. You felt the tension. You don’t get that with Stalia. It’s just there. There is no development, there is no build up it’s just there. It’s like a pairing out of a Lifetime special or a Mary-Sue’s fanfic. Superficial and unrealistic.

    I can also compare Stalia to the ever popular SonAmy ship. Both are very unhealthy pairings for both parties involved although in the case of the latter there had been slight redemption for it in recent games and the recent Sonic Boom remake but that’s neither here nor there. Back to the unhealthy aspect, Amy and Malia both have very unhealthy attachments to their disinterested love interests. In both cases they are abusive to them as well. The amount of times Amy had smacked Sonic and others around with her Piko-Piko hammer in the games, comics, and Sonic X are insane and had Amy been human instead of an anthropomorphasized hedgehog, she would have most certainly been arrested for assault. Malia is no better starting with punching Stiles, who judging by where he got hit should have had a more serious injury due to Malia’s vastly superior strength and ending with her comments during the full moon which really drives home she doesn’t care about Stiles as much as she claims or the Stalia fans think. If she did would she really be thinking about ripping his face off? I don’t think so. Not even Derek went to that extreme.

    Even furthering on the comparison of Sonic ships to this, Sterek is to the Teen Wolf fandom what SonAdow and Rouge/Knuckles is to the Sonic fandom and even Sora/Riku for the Kingdom Hearts fandom. They’re the ships that have the most amount of believibility and development verses their canon competitors in the case of the former and latter Sonic example and especially the latter Kingdom Hearts example. In cases such as these, the fans know more about what they want than the writers.

    Now don’t get me wrong. I think Shelley is an amazing actress and I seriously want to like Malia as a character but as a writer she is not at all likable. Her character is just trying too hard to be a mash up Derek/Erica and the Stalia pairing isn’t believable enough and needs to stop being shoved down our throats.

  27. ok she may have some problems but honestly i don’t give a f**k. I see more romance with stiles and malia then i see with stiles and lydia through out the whole series. stiles and malia are good couples wether the fans like it or not.

    1. Please try expressing yourself without resorting to profanity on this website in the future. Thank you.

      -Admin Angel

            1. I’m really behind on Teen Wolf so I’m afraid I’m not informed enough to have an opinion. Teen Wolf isn’t a show I usually form strong opinions about anyway. I’ve got three amazing writers on this website with varied opinions who cover that show.

              -Admin Angel

    2. If you only want Stiles to be romantic with somebody so you don’t like Malia, you just like the chance of Stiles being with somebody, don’t matter how badly done and unrealistic the pair and the girl is.

  28. Personally I hate Malia… She ruined Stydia, like yeah I understand Lydia wasn’t all up for it but she did love him, its obvious and Malia comes and RUINS it. Malia just aggravates me. I ship Stydia all the way.

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