Jeff Davis Gives Up: Lets Fans Design Season 5 Creature

49 thoughts on “Jeff Davis Gives Up: Lets Fans Design Season 5 Creature”

1. Well, I’ve asked an artist friend to draw up one of the creatures I created for a fic, because it’s only drawn art that can be entered. I figure… why not? I mean, right now it’s just sitting in a fic that only a few thousand people have read. And I’m not planning on doing anything with the idea in some larger context, so if they like it, why not let them have it. It’s the closest thing I’d ever get to writing for TV.

2. All I can say is thank goodness for fanfic, because I can enjoy the TW characters I like without having to put up with a show that’s become an embarrassment on so many levels.

   Given their history of using segments of their fanbase for ratings and then treating them disrespectfully afterward (especially since the fandom feat award), I cringe when I see MTV/TW do anything involving fan interaction. But maybe it’ll work out well. After all, any fan who submits a design is more likely to care about whether the creature makes sense than Jeff Davis is.

3. In the past, Teen Wolf used Sterek fans to get:
   – 2.000.000 likes on facebook
   – word of mouth advertising
   – tons of new viewers
   – tons of free press
   – People Choice Award for Teen Wolf
   – People Choice Award for Posey
   – TV Guide Cover for Posey and Hoechlin
   – MTVu Fandom Feat. of the Year Award (name of the Sterek Campaign censored)
   Then Posey insulted the very same fans that were used to gain votes, ratings and new viewers during an interview (because voting for him and Teen Wolf is such an horrible and unrefined thing to do that he HAD to insult and humiliate them.
   Then Teen Wolf drummed up false accusation about death threats to Posey, while the “real” death threats were, in fact, from a super-Posey-stan towards people protesting about Posey’s word.
   And then Teen Wolf censored everything Sterek related (they even deleted their own article on their own site) and proceeded to humiliate the fans some more.

   Teen Wolf held a fanfic contest, and then they made fun of fanfics – among the mocked fanfics there was even a winning one – publicly during a television interview.

   Teen Wolf also held a contest to design a t-shirt for Stiles, and as far as I know the thing vanished in thin air.

   Teen Wolf started The Collective, to police the fans and to acquire the ownership of their creations for free.

   This show and the poeple behind it are not interested in fans, are not ethical or professional.
   Everything they do is aimed ad exploitation and to reach their goals and to take fans money, just to trash them when they are done.

   This new contest is just another way to use the fans and to try to cater to what’s left of the fandom, nothing more, nothing less.

   The good news is that this fanmade creature is going to be better than whatever the showrunner and his team of writers could ever come up with.

   1. Agreed. As a woman who identifies as a bisexual despite being in a long term heterosexual relationship, and as a mother of a child who is neurodivergent and has physical disabilities, I feel that if I was to submit art or information about a design then my own creation would be used to forward misogynist, homophobic, and ableist agendas.

      All while TW/MTV would continue to falsely advertised their programming as diverse and free of homophobia. And they continue to allow their stars (Posey) to spew filth without any sort of apology or censure. MTV could actually be said to encourage such unacceptable by enabling the erasure of the Sterek movement within the fandom.

      MTV and the show runners and cast of Teen Wolf need to look to themselves ans start making corrections and saying apologies before I’d consider submitting any efforts or money to them. There’s more than one reason I unsubscribed from cable TV (subbed to cable internet and bought a good antenna so I get all major broadcast networks) this year but denying MTV any cash was part of my reasoning.

      1. Amen to that & big hug! After all this TW débâcle there’s no reason for us to support ths show anymore, they don’t deserve it at this point.

         So yes, I completly agree with what all have said before (& I won’t watch or buy the series anymore of course): instead of getting so pissed at it we should just stay in the fandom & preserve that nice memory of what the characters once were…fans’ outcome will be surely better than that created by boss Jeff IMO. Bye

   2. – Teen Choice Award for Teen Wolf
      – Teen Choice Award for Posey
      Sorry for the mistake, I wrote in a hurry! 😉

      1. No problem hun! Plus I forget to mention that after that grotesque situation of Sterek & the award stolen away by them, I won’t ever support & vote again also for this duo. I’m sad to say it but I’m still bothered by that lack of respect, so I won’t do it again, fool me once y’know…

         The rest it’s all bla-blah, they fake to embrace it but in the end they are just like too my others. Let’s hope to have better shows then soon. Be

   3. How is any of this different from any other show? They all do this, in fact it was far worse in Stargate Atlantis and Supernatural. This is all excessive drama over business as usual

      1. Stargate and Supernatural NEVER used shippers to get votes just to spit on them later.
         They NEVER asked them to vote for a single damn thing. Not once.
         And the authors never said that they could be convinced.
         And that’s a pretty big difference.

         Oh, and they never censored a damn CHARITY PROJECT either.

         There should be a limit made of “integrity”, “truth” and “coherence” even in defending a tv show, and you and your gang have crossed it a long time ago, you’ve reached the level of those that invented the death threats to Posey, and that says a lot about your own morality.

         1. You really need to take a chill pill and tone down those accusations

      2. These incidents alone:
         http://youtu.be/cKTQPWbxQZk (2012 promotion video to get votes)

         http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/teen-wolf-fandom-pr-sterek/ (2013 threat to #killdanny if they didn’t get votes next time, Danny disappears following season)

         https://thegeekiary.com/we-need-to-talk-about-tyler-posey/6967 (Tyler Posey calling Sterek shippers bizarre, weird, twisted)

         https://thegeekiary.com/tyler-hoechlin-sterek-conventions-and-the-fourth-wall/14500 (Tyler Hoechlin, who is very respectful to sterek shippers, will not sign Sterek items at conventions)

         http://www.dailydot.com/geek/teen-wolf-fandom-awards-sterek-sdcc/ (Tyler Posey, when the Sterek Campaign raised $25,000 for a wolf rescue thereby winning Fandom Feat of the Year, gave the award to some random fan not related in anyway to the Sterek Campaign)

         http://www.dailydot.com/culture/cookies-for-sterek-fan-campaign-jeff-davis/ (Jeff Davis says he could be persuaded to make Sterek happen)

         Ableism – The first bad guy (Peter) was a burn victim (look over tropes and scarring) who seemed to have narcissistic personality disorder, who was former coma patient with a nurse who let him wander around at night, then came out of the coma to fly into a narcissistic rage. Jennifer, completely disfigured face. The man who was the nogitsune was another burn victim. The mute hitman had no lips. He was being directed by Meredith, who was mentally ill (not sure what the diagnoses was).

         Even among the good guys, Stiles is socially undesirable because he has ADHD.

         Other issues, no one cares that their friends or first loves or classmates are dead or missing. And FFS: Eichen House, Eichen House, Eichen House!

         Davis is playing in a world with actual monsters going bump in the night, does he have to make most of the bad guys bad simply because they aren’t as pretty as Derek?

4. This new creature idea sounds good … then again so did sterek and we all saw how that turned out

5. “nonsensical storylines” – not really, they just require viewers to be more analytical, research, and THINK more than the average show. Personally, I think that’s a good thing.

   “rampant queerbaiting” – blatantly false. If your talking about Danny, the actor was injured and unable to be in season 4. If your talking about Sterek, the text of the show is all green lights. The only thing that could stop Sterek is all this pointless wank and negative press causing advertisers and Jeff’s corporate bosses forcing Jeff to scrap it. So, congrats, this article is part of the problem.

   “the repeated killing off of female and/or characters of color” – also false. This has been debunked time and time again. The numbers have been run, it’s 50/50 on women vs men and more white deaths than character of color deaths, somewhere around a 2/3 to 1/3 split respectively.

   As for this contest itself, numerous shows have done this before, including Doctor Who. Teen Wolf has had many of these before including Shantal Rhodes recurring part and the “die on Teen Wolf” contest. This is Teen Wolf trying to engage their fans. By which I mean people who actually LIKE the show.

   I could go on, but hopefully I’ve made my point. Just because so called “fans” (in that they are not actually fans of the show itself, but fans of derivative works of the show) have made it popular to repeat these accusations doesn’t make them fact

   1. I don’t really dig the whole “real fans” argument. People who watch a show for a ship are fans just as much as people who watch it for any other reason.

      Disclaimer: Don’t watch Teen Wolf. Don’t ship Sterek. Also don’t appreciate it when applied to me for shows I like for reasons I like them.

      1. I didn’t say “real fans,” although I admit “so called fans” is pushing it. I was creating a distinction between people who like the show for itself (canon) vs fans who prefer derivative works (fannon). Both are perfectly fine, but contests like this are directed at those who like canon, not those who seek to create wank because the show isn’t following their fannon ideals

         1. “So called fans” is close enough to calling them “not real fans” that it irks me quite a bit. They are fans just as much as you are.

            1. Let me better illustrate what I mean by giving an example:

               I’m talking about people who spend their time actively hating on every aspect of the show. People who hate all new characters as soon as they are announced, hate almost all the relationships, hate every plot decision, and hate how their favorite characters are portrayed. They hate the entire creative team behind the show and belittle their abilities. They cheer at every ratings drop, actively hope the show gets canceled, and view it as their moral duty to ward off any potential new viewers. And no, I’m not exaggerating.

               1. Forgot to add: they also belittle and bully fans who do like and enjoy the show as it is.

                  1. Oh look, another lie! From someone from a group that literally jump on every post they don’t agree with just to tell others they are “too stupid” to understand the show, or to “leave the fandom” or to “f**k off”.
                     The very same people that are spreading lies about the actors too, without having any shame.

                     Sorry for the language, but those are actual quotes from some peole that are part of the “meta group”.

                     1. How is that a lie? Just look at colethewolf’s posts on Tumblr and Twitter.

                        1. Except that CTW usually stays on his blog or twitter, while you and the little friends of yours have an history of jumping on other people’s posts, telling them how stupid they are because they don’t see things your ways and fabricating BS about different things just to prove your point.
                           CTW isn’t an harasser or a bully because he spent his time on his own blog, and you can agree or disagree with him (often I don’t, btw) and that’s all.
                           Your group jumps on other people’s posts every time you don’t agree with something, and instead of starting a civil discussion with something polite like “In my opinion” and/or “what do you think about his viewpoint of mine(insert explanations)” your opening is usually “you’re not able to understand it!!!1!!”, spending your time accusing people of being stupid because they have a different opinion, and even actual s**t like “leave the fandom” (because it belongs to your group, of course) and even “F**K OFF” (sorry mods, it’s an actual quote).
                           There’s a big difference between this 2 behaviors, and you should have learned it a long time ago (unless you’re actually 8, I this case I apologize for being here discussing with a child).
                           Try to start your discussion in a different way, try to understand that you don’t have the TRUTH in your hands and that your opinions are just opinions, like everybody’s else, and probably people would stop thinking about the meta-group as a gathering of bullies.
                           In my opinion, Cupid’s a brillant example of “how to do it”.
                           You should also try to learn that different opinions are an actual thing in real life, and that people can think what they want about a tv show.
                           On the other hand, lies are lies and will always be lies, stop selling them to prove your points, and I’m talking about things like “Keanu was ill” (yours) or “Keanu’s family member was ill” (athena’s) while Keanu himself confirmed at NYCC he was simply written out (and he’s fine with it) and while Holland said the same at a con (actual footage and tweets from attendees available).
                           And for the love of all that’s holy, stop stalking ctw and then whine about how much he’s “ruining it for you”. Someone disliking something doesn’t ruin anything for other people! Grow up!

               2. As someone who is in the Supernatural fandom, I definitely know this type of person. And it’s annoying. But I’m still not a fan of fandom gatekeeping. There’s just no way I’m going to agree to something that is and isn’t a “true fan.” If someone identifies themself as a fan, then who am I to take that label away from them?

                  1. Again, I never said “true fan” (which would encompass a much broader context than I am discussing) I only described what they WERE a fan of (Teen Wolf fanon) and what they were NOT a fan of (Teen Wolf canon). It is possible to separate the two and be a fan of one but not the other.

                     1. Aaaand this discussion has veered off course from the original point which is:

                        The article above contains a significant amount of claims that have NO factual basis and instead repeats the wank of aforementioned fans that live off of assuming the show is purposefully ruining everything the love (which itself is one of those claims that has no basis in fact).

                     2. Yes I am aware of what you said, but as I said this is ringing too close to the true fan argument for me. It feels like gate keeping. And I’m not in favor of gate keeping other people’s titles. You are trying to tell people they are fans of fanon, not canon, but I feel they should be the ones to dictate that, not either of us. Nothing you said really addresses that problem.

                        1. Except I’m not telling people they are or are not anything, I’m describing people who have stated for themselves that they do not like canon and do like fanon. Maybe that’s where we got our wires crossed? If someone says “I do not like canon, I want the ratings to go down so it gets canceled. Fanfiction is far better than anything these morons write” then I can accurately describe if they do or do not like canon vs fanon. These are simply observable facts like stating water is wet and the sun is hot, there are people who do not like canon because they say they do not like canon. So I really don’t see a problem here.

   2. Ravewulf, the queer-baiting has to do with more than Danny. It’s also about things like the way the show boasts of its queer representation when most of the time it’s got only token representation – and even worse, thinks so little of the token gay character that when he wasn’t featured in S4, there wasn’t even a mention of him. And of course there are things like trying to appeal to Sterek fans when they apparently have no intention of even putting the two characters in scenes together if they can avoid it. And the probability that the hints of Stiles’ possible bi-sexuality were just for laughs, if DO can be believed.

      I would love to believe that the show is all green lights for Sterek, but it’s not. The show and everyone connected to it have been acting as though even the word “Sterek” is anathema. The characters barely have any interactions anymore. The show isn’t giving Sterek a green light, it’s giving Sterek fans the middle finger.

      As for the ratio of deaths between white males and all others, that’s probably improved slightly with the return of Kate this season. But that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been an issue. When you look at significant characters on the show, there’s a marked difference in who lives and who dies, definitely favoring the white males. For example:
      Derek’s betas – Jackson and Isaac lived, Erica and Boyd died. Argents – Gerard lived, Allison and Victoria died. Villains – Deucalion lived, Kali died. The ratio has gotten slightly better over time (Cora lived, Aiden died, Kate returned), but it’s not as if the complaint about the ratio was baseless.

      I don’t even know what to say regarding the statement that S4 wasn’t nonsensical but merely required the viewer to think more and to do more research and be more analytical. What are we supposed to analyze? Why characters showed no lingering effects to previous trauma (physical or psychological)? How the dead pool came to be tied to some old computers? There’s nothing there to research, and if I think more about it I’ll cry for the hours I lost watching that season.

      And while I mean no disrespect to you, I have to say I find it really offensive for your to imply that if the show doesn’t go ahead with Sterek, it’s somehow the fault of articles like this one or other “negative press” that call out the show when it’s needed. We don’t have to genuflect at the feet of Jeff Davis and then be grateful if he’ll grace us with a scene or two in which Stiles and Derek are in the same room. That’s not what a relationship between fans and a show should be about.

      1. The queer representation is better than a standard show in that there are more background and secondary LGBT characters who don’t simply fill a stereotype and they live in a world where being LGBT is completely unremarkable. PR is going to stretch that truth as far as they can and sometimes ties it in knots, but their job isn’t to talk to current fans, it’s to attract new viewers. That’s just PR and business in general. Stiles’ bisexuality was not played for laughs and is canon, it just isn’t as loudly pronounced as some fans would like.

         On Sterek being a go as far as canon is concerned: this is strictly the text of the show, not the PR, conventions, or interviews which (intentionally or unintentionally) muddy the waters. The Sterek relationship is following a “Pride and Prejudice” relationship arc. If you recall, Elizabeth and Darcy spent a lot of time apart before they got together towards the end. Season 4 was also Derek’s journey through bardo which required him to be without Stiles for the majority of it. If you remember Jeff’s comment about the inspiration of the Sterek dream at the end of 3B, he said it was from “An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge.” Derek’s journey through bardo is taken from “Jacob’s Ladder,” which is also based on “An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge” (weasley-detectives did an excellent meta perfectly matching the two). There’s also that video with tons of parallels between Sterek and Dennifer, a more recent gifset with scenes of all of Stiles’ love interests (even Erica and Cora) and matching it to Sterek scenes, and the match of Sterek to Derek/Paige. As far as canon goes, Sterek is lit up in neon lights.

         For more on the death ratios, I will refer you to anvh89’s meta “‘Burning down the house’ – a study of Teen Wolf’s view on minorities” (I don’t know if linking works here, but it should be the top Google result anyway). The claims may have been true in 3A, but not in 3B and 4. The claims of racism are invalid, but it may appear skewed because most of the POC are getting the better roles and better pay. Given the genre a lot of the secondary and background characters that come on the show are going to die, no different from any other show in the genre. Athenadark has also extensively covered this issue if you require even more proof.

         (Points above to “Pride and Prejudice,” “An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge,” “Jacob’s Ladder,” the Silent Hill games, Othello, and many, many more examples.) Lydia spent the whole of S4 mourning Allison and trying to make up for having failed to save her. No, it wasn’t as showy as some would like, but it was in her every action and her determination for the whole season. Stiles is under huge guilt from the nogitsune and is trying to atone for it by helping his pet project, Malia, to be “normal” and keep her out of Peter’s influence. He’s also doing his best to appear “normal” for his dad and Scott’s sakes as they both would prefer a return to their life before the supernatural. But as S4 tells us, they “Can’t go back” no matter how much they may want it.

         As for Sterek happening or not happening, it isn’t about the relationship between the creator and the fans, it’s about the control advertisers and Jeff’s corporate bosses have over HIM. If they see too much negative press all surrounding Sterek they will FORCE Jeff to drop Sterek whether Jeff wants to or not or alternatively replace Jeff altogether with someone who will do their bidding. It’s an ugly truth, but that’s corporate Hollywood for you.

         I apologize if I haven’t covered everything as clearly or as thoroughly as would be best, but this comment is already really long.

         1. I’m sure most of those explanations for representation, death ratios, etc., are well-intended, but they don’t work in 2015 (or 2014). For instance, if a show is going to brag about queer representation, it has to deliver more than a tertiary character that the show creator swaps out for a similar character without even realizing that some fans might be put off by his absence. (Does it bother you that Danny, a POC side-kick gay character (originally serving as best friend to a white male with a prominent storyline) went missing in S4 when they brought in Mason, a POC gay side-kick (serving as best friend for a white male with a prominent storyline)? It’s irrelevant whether the boasting came from the showrunner or the PR team. It’s still the show.

            As far as I’m aware, Stiles’ bi-sexuality is not canon. If it is, can you point to an episode/scene in which we learn this?

            Sterek isn’t following a Pride and Prejudice arc. It isn’t really following any discernible arc. Any parallels between Sterek and any other romances in the show are not intentional. Most of what you posit about Sterek isn’t text or subtext – it’s fanwank. And it gives an awful lot of credit for intricate story-telling to a showrunnner who has admitted he’s stretching out his characters’ high-school years because he doesn’t know what to do with them when they reach college. Remember, this is the same guy who, when asked why Kira didn’t use her electrical abilities when fighting off a berserker with a chain said, “Gee, I wish one of us writers had thought of that.”

            1. Danny was never a sidekick, he has always been a full character of his own and as I said previously the actor was injured and unable to be in S4. Mason is also not his replacement. To say so would reduce both characters to the two traits of being gay and on the lacrosse team, which is an insult to both characters and the roles they have played throughout the series.

               Teen Wolf is actually ahead of its time, but it can be difficult to see that when you’re thinking in the context of today’s usual shows. Jeff said that he created Teen Wolf as a universe in which being LGBT is unremarkable, meaning they do not live in a world of “straight until proven gay.” You are assuming that characters are straight until sufficiently proven otherwise, and that assumption is a mistake with this show (just as it is a mistake in real life). If Stiles and Derek were male and female (doesn’t matter who is which) then it would be extremely obvious to the audience that there is mutual attraction and potential for a relationship there. THAT is what we’re seeing with Stiles and Derek. Where is the proof that Stiles is bi? The entire series starting from season 1. He has subtlety demonstrated interest in men as well as women, but our world places an unequally heavy burden on queer characters to prove their queerness that is not required to prove characters are straight. Scott is actually the only character in the whole series to specifically label himself as straight. Also, lighting is key. There is a golden lighting used in a lot of romantic scenes and Stiles and Derek get it in the dream at the end of 3B (which again, Jeff said the scene is based off a story of a dying man dreaming of seeing his wife one last time; aka Derek already loves Stiles even if he won’t say anything).

               You may not see the arcs that Sterek is following, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. It simply means you don’t see it (and that’s ok, you don’t have to).

               As for “Any parallels between Sterek and any other romances in the show are not intentional,” how do you know? Where do you set the bar? For me, I see scenes and scenarios repeated word for word, shot for shot, multiple times. It is a clear and obvious pattern that has continued through multiple seasons with multiple pairs of characters. That type of thing doesn’t happen by accident. TV doesn’t just “happen” in general. It has to be planned, scenes and shots set up, filmed take after take until they get what they want and edit it together. You really need to watch the “Sterek vs Doomed” video by sinycatarina on YouTube if you haven’t already (it’s a bit out of date as we’ve found tons more, but it’s still definitely worth at least a watch or two).

               Also, take interviews, especially the more recent ones, with a grain of salt. Jeff is a huge troll and loves to mislead so as not to spoil the show (or just for fun; he does that). The proof of what he’s really doing is in what he does with the show, not his words to the press and fans.

               1. The fact that Danny and Mason are little more than gay characters on the lacrosse team is exactly my point. And Danny, much as I wish it wasn’t true, hasn’t been built up as a full character. After three seasons on the show, we know little more than his name and a couple of very basic traits about him. (I rooted for there to be more of a story line for him and Ethan, and believe me, it pains me to acknowledge the shoddy job the show has done with him.) Mason isn’t fairing any better so far. The insult isn’t to the characters but to the viewers who are being sold a bill of goods about how Teen Wolf is a gift to representation when it’s not.

                  You haven’t provided proof that Stiles is bi in canon because it doesn’t exist right now. What you’ve provided is evidence that they’ve hinted at the idea – which Jeff Davis has admitted anyway. But that doesn’t make it canon, especially when they back away from the idea (i.e. DO’s comment).

                  I don’t disagree that if Stiles and Derek were a guy/girl combination the show would play up their attraction. But they’re not a guy/girl combination. And the show has used the potential attraction between them to queerbait, nothing more. Those parallels are wishful thinking.

                  I love Sterek, but it’s not going to happen in the show – which would be fine if only TW and MTV hadn’t used, queerbaited, and disrespected fans by turn. I can’t excuse any of that anymore by saying that Jeff Davis has a secret plan and is subversively planting a Sterek arc in the show. He’s not that clever.

                  1. Except Danny was more than a gay lacrosse player? He was especially important to the plot in tracking down who sent the text to Scott in season 1 and in season 3A he created the map of the telluric currents all completely independently of Jackson. Maybe it isn’t the level of involvement you want to see, but he has played a key role beyond simply “the gay lacrosse player.” Mason has only just been introduced and found out about the supernatural and is a supportive friend that Liam needs. He’s likely to have a bigger role in season 5 now that he’s in the know.

                     Teen Wolf PR is a separate entity used to get new viewers, it has nothing to do with the actual show and often misleads and dumbs down what the show is about. It is best ignored. For the most part same goes for interviews, especially interviews with the actors. The actors have openly admitted Jeff gives them only the information they need to know to act the scenes as they get them. They have little to no more information about where the show is going than any fan does beyond what they have actually filmed. Besides, Dylan said Stiles wasn’t gay, which is true. He isn’t gay, he’s bi.

                     Stiles was awfully interested in if gay guys found him attractive for a “straight” guy. He was eyeing Derek up in the early seasons before he got to know Derek, he checked out one of the Calaveras in season 4, he flirted with Derek in season 2 and in season 3A, he also took Danny’s offer of having sex with him seriously in 3A. When asked if he liked boys in 3B, Stiles got a look of realization on his face and didn’t answer, which is an answer in and of itself. And that’s just a short list off the top of my head.

                     How are the parallels wishful thinking? Remember the Stilinski rule for establishing patterns? Four is enough for a warrant and we are way beyond four parallels. They exist and were created to be that way. Jeff even acknowledged the parallels and said they were important during a Tumblr Q&A session while 3A was airing. In another Tumblr Q&A he said Derek an Laura went to Splash Bar while they were in New York. Splash Bar is a gay bar.

                     “if Stiles and Derek were a guy/girl combination the show would play up their attraction. But they’re not a guy/girl combination” which is exactly the type of common thinking Teen Wolf set out to dismantle. Teen Wolf is treating Stiles and Derek exactly the same as if they were a guy/girl pairing, we just have trouble seeing it through our own expectations of “straight until proven otherwise”

                     If you can’t see that Sterek is being purposefully developed, I can’t make you. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

                     1. Giving Danny computer skills was just a little deus ex machina sleight of hand to advance plots. As is evident by any other good reason for Danny’s continued existence in the plot as a sexual/romantic character for a member of the alpha pack. (Seriously, Davis, Danny’s best friend is gone and the best you could think of was a sex and romance without any sort of organic growth of the relationship?)

                        I’d point out that Danny’s uncommented disappearance in season 4 is further proof that he isn’t a even a good “token” minority character. Except season 4 was like some surreal world where deaths of your first love don’t matter, dating two female psychopaths doesn’t make you hesitate to jump into bed with another woman, and growing up as a coyote rather than a girl means that you can instantly attend high school. I’m rather hoping that season 5 will “fix” 4 by saying season 4 was all a dream… Then I can roll with laughter when I hear about it.

                        If you want to watch a progressive show with diverse characters: check out The 100 or Orange Is The New Black. Both have strong female (and male) characters, both have lots of ethnicities, and the latter has a range of sexualities represented.

                        TW is a standard oversexualized, poorly written show from the 90s with its typical range of token minorities (rather than fully developed minority characters) being presented by the showrunners and advertisers as false evidence that the show belongs to this decade.

                     2. Well, yes, I do want more involvement than that before I’d consider Danny a major character. Or Mason. Or anyone else.

                        And no, I can’t see any of what you’re claiming as purposeful Sterek development. And you know what? I hope Jeff Davis proves me wrong and you right. But I don’t think he will.

                  2. Proof Stiles is bi
                     dylan-obruh.tumblr.com/post/108925843111

                     1. No, that’s not proof that he’s bi in canon. Those are the things that Jeff Davis admitted he put in there – intentionally – to hint that Stiles might be bi, if they ever choose to expand on the idea later in the show. Those are moments that a lot of us put some faith in that we could actually have a major bi character in this show. But unfortunately they don’t prove that canon is committed to the idea that Stiles is bi, only that they throw in an occasional line that could either be a hint or a joke. I used to accept that as proof, but I no longer do. I don’t have to accept vague little throwaway lines that casual viewers see as jokes (and possibly so does the actor speaking them). I’m not giving them credit for having a major bi character on so little evidence. Not any more. I want better than that.

                        1. /I don’t have to accept vague little throwaway lines that casual viewers see as jokes (and possibly so does the actor speaking them). I’m not giving them credit for having a major bi character on so little evidence. Not any more. I want better than that./
                           Yes to all of this.

                           1. It goes back to that I believe Jeff intended to go against the societal standard of “straight until proven otherwise” when he created Teen Wolf and that, with that knowledge, I believe we have more than enough evidence. Where as you are following the “straight until proven otherwise” standard that, in my view, fits with the “it isn’t gay if the balls don’t touch” saying.

                     2. Ravewulf, you commented:
                        “It goes back to that I believe Jeff intended to go against the societal standard of “straight until proven otherwise” when he created Teen Wolf and that, with that knowledge, I believe we have more than enough evidence. Where as you are following the “straight until proven otherwise” standard that, in my view, fits with the “it isn’t gay if the balls don’t touch” saying.”

                        It isn’t as if they need to show explicit gay sex in order to confirm that a character is canon bisexual. There are any number of different ways that they can do it. Throwaway lines that can be taken as nothing more than a joke aren’t enough by themselves. And it’s not enough for Jeff Davis to just say something in an interview, and expect credit for it, if the show itself doesn’t bear out the statement. Accusing someone of not understanding the showrunner’s vision doesn’t work. If the vision isn’t evident in canon, that’s a fault of the showrunner – not the viewers.

                        It used to be that queer representation had to be subtle, and people had to accept scraps and be grateful. That should not still be the case. Extra-canon comments intended to keep us happy while the show doesn’t deliver won’t cut it.

                        It’s not as if meta and sex are the only ways to create a story for a queer character. There are as many ways as there are for straight characters. We’re not that different. Meta that accuses viewers of not seeing the “real” story is frustrating, because it credits the showrunner for more than he’s committed to, and excuses him when he says things just to string fans along. Viewers aren’t that stupid.

   3. “If your talking about Danny, the actor was injured and unable to be in season 4.”

      I will never understand the need people like you have to make up straight bs and spread them to excuse this show. I’ve never seen a group so prone at using lies and misleading as your group, and I have no words for you.

      Keanu wans’t injured, he wasn’t “not avaiable”, one of his family mamber wasn’t “hill”.
      Each and every one of this disgusting lies was invented by the so called “meta group”, and if you need to invent something horrible like a family member being sick you should probably start questioning yourself and your morality.

      Keanu was written out of the show, as said by Holland very clearly at a con(footage available) and confirmed by Keanu at another con.
      He’s comment was literally “I don’t write the show” and, for the love of truth, he also said he’s ok with it.

      I’m disgusted by this attitude and about your lack of shame.

      1. Sorry, “ill”, not “hill”. This is hilarious!

      2. eaddymays.tumblr.com/post/98488794611/softlycanthropy-fan-a-lot-of-crap-has-happened

         1. Ravewolf, are you serious?!
            You understand the simple concept of EXAMPLES without any meaning, right?
            You understand that she’s not talking about anything specific?
            That she’s giving vague exaples of nameless persons and nameless facts?
            Like “xyz” goes “here” and “there”?
            You understand the simple concept of Keanu himself confirming he was simply WRITTEN OUT?
            The even more simple concept of Holland telling he was written out IN FRONT OF CAMERAS?
            (sorry, I’m not shouting, just underlying.

            “I could say (from outside the AU): ”Well, researching the demographic indicates that ratings increase with shirtless locker room scenes so they incorporated more lacrosse games instead of the counseling session scenes. I mean, we gotta pay the bills! Especially since so-and-so actor broke his nose and couldn’t be on set for 6 weeks but by the time he could come back, he had a scheduling conflict with another show he had already booked and Union rules wouldn’t allow the dates to be changed, so we had to re-shoot episode abc and cut scene xyz and we were already behind with the shooting schedule because the unexpected rain caused flooding at the location where we were supposed to shoot the week before.”

            You understand that these are just EXAMPLES, right? Not actual fact?
            Because I swear to God, it’s not too difficult to EXTRACT A CONCEPT from the examples she was giving.

            Not to mention that I don’t even agree with a lot of the excuses she’s making for the show, but that’s another thing entirely.

            1. I’m just going to add another thing.

               You understand that if Keanu wouldn’t have been available because of an injury he and Holland would have said so, right?

               You understand that you wouldn’t need to make up ONE EXCUSE about him being injuried and Athena wouldn’t have the need to make up ANOTHER EXCUSE DIFFERENT FROM YOURS about someone in his family being ill, right?

               You UNDERSTAND that being injuried or having family problems are perfectly valid reasons not to be in a show and the show/showrunner/actors WOULD HAVE SAID SO, if that was the case?

               In what damn fantasy word are you even living?
               One where an actor shades a show about being written out at NEW YORK COMICON while it’s not true?!
               One where an actress announces said actor was written out at a convention in front of hundreds of people and cameras while it’s not true?!

               In what damn kind of la la land do you honestly think this would be ok for them to do?
               In what damn kind of la la land do you live not to think about the fact that MTVTeenWolf would have made a simple statement about Keanu being injuried, especially after all the backlash?!
               In what damn kind of la la land do you live to think Keanu would have tweet what he tweeted when he was asked about S4, if it was just for a injury?

               Networks and showrunners announce that actors are not available “because of this” and “because of that” every 5 minutes. It’s normal.
               Why do you think MTV was silent about the whole Danny disappearing?
               What on earth makes you think MTV wouldn’t have done the same, especially since they did it with every other actor that wasn’t coming back.
               What on earth makes you think they chose to shut up and receive a ton of backlash?
               What kind of reasoning is going on in your brain?

               You are so damn proud of your ability about reading a tv show and you aren’t able to read reality at its simplest levels?

               God, I swear I’m not able to understand if you really believe in all the bs you are telling yourself, and that’s objectively frightful.

6. Whoa, I woke up and saw that this article jumped up in comments! As a writer, that makes me very happy because, agree or disagree, I love seeing people analyzing and interacting with my work. Nonetheless, I feel that I should perhaps clarify a few of my points:

   First of all, I am a fan of ‘Teen Wolf’. I care about these characters and want to see them treated with respect; meaning they are given intriguing, dynamic, and well-written storylines. So when I see episodes that, in my opinion, make little sense, have abrupt endings with little acknowledgement of the show’s history/mythology, throw beloved characters to the backburner to make room for underdeveloped and (more boring, white, seemingly straight) characters, or are just plain poorly written, I get annoyed.

   Based on how I have seen MTV and the Teen Wolf creators interact with fans, I can’t help but suspect that they have little understanding of fandom or worse, fear it. Like I stated in the article, I used to work in the entertainment industry in social media and therefore, did a lot of the work that the MTV/Teen Wolf social media does now and I believe that those in charge over there are simply not fans of the show. It’s a job. That’s it. And that’s okay. But I do think they need to pay attention to when fandom replies with discontent or worries and address these concerns.

   At the end of the day, I care about fans. I don’t like to see fans and their works exploited, made fun of, or neglected. While the idea of a contest for the fans is great (especially for a chance to see their work created in real life by the SFX department), I worry about how the fans’ works will be treated once it’s owned perpetually by MTV.

7. Besides been one of the greatest fans, I am a writer too. I don’t believe Jeff Davis gives up and doesn’t know what else to do. I have thought on a lot of interesting story lines, good characters. enemies, rivals and threat to Beacon Hills, so I know they can think in many more. I don’t think season 4 was a disappointment, it just left us in more suspense than season 3B. We had great fun with Stalia, we had Satomi come back as an alpha, we had new young werewolves and we had Scott taking on Peter one on one. There is a lot ways to expand the characters beyond the future College routine and introduce many new human and supernatural beings to change the lives of the Pack and their friends. All Teen Wolf needs is more mystery, a darker atmosphere of fear, intense action, romantic plots and maintain the realism, without vampires, witches and magic. Personally, I hope they don’t explore STEREK, but maybe see them become closer friends and have their moments. Bring back two forgotten great characters Ethan and Caitlin as recurring characters. Introduce a new boyfriend for Ethan that is not Danny or Mason and even a greater role for Caitlin and a new girlfriend for her.

   1. At this point, why should he bring in more characters? He hasn’t really developed the newer characters he’s already introduced. “More characters” doesn’t necessarily equate with “good story line”, especially when the characters are one-dimensional, and when character development is ignored because it gets in the way of the plot. That’s just lazy writing, and S4 is filled with examples of it. Stalia wasn’t fun, it was painful and forced. There was no suspense, because the plot made no sense. I wasn’t left wanting more, unless you count wanting it to get better. The entire season had the depth and complexity of a pre-teen’s first fanfic, and I know Jeff Davis can do better than that. But I’m not sure he cares enough to do so.

      1. Amen to this. Adding tons of underdeveloped characters witout a storyline it’s not “good writing”, especially since Davis seems unable to explore the one he already have.
         “Good characters” are certainly not what we’ve seen on Teen Wolf lately, and the new romances aren’t funny but cringeworthy and worrisome, I’ve read better stories in my middle school’s classes.

8. “Except Danny was more than a gay lacrosse player? He was especially important to the plot in tracking down who sent the text to Scott in season 1 and in season 3A he created the map of the telluric currents all completely independently of Jackson.”

   Anyone could have done those. They were performed by Danny so that he wouldn’t remain totally useless.

   “Maybe it isn’t the level of involvement you want to see, but he has played a key role beyond simply “the gay lacrosse player.”

   He’s done some important things(cf aforementioned points), yes. That means he’s… someone… who can… do things? But hey, important things! Hurray! Now, where is Danny in all this? As stated before, those could have been achieved by anyone. They chose Danny because otherwise people would see him for what he really is, a Token Gay Character. Now he’s got something to do! An excuse to be on stage! Which still leaves a big gaping hole in the personality department. What makes Danny Danny? What does he like, what are his dreams? Not that it matters since, you know, he’s not there because he’s busy doing… things… somewhere…(fulfilling some secret but essential missions to the plot, no doubt.)

   “Mason has only just been introduced and found out about the supernatural and is a supportive friend that Liam needs. He’s likely to have a bigger role in season 5 now that he’s in the know.”

   Mason stupid. Mason needs time to adjust. Mason ready in a another season, until then, Mason sits on his ***, being gay and trying to understand what supernatural means. (Malia, on the other hand, is clearly smarter. There is a girl who’s spent a consequent part of her life as an animal but, once human again, can interact with other humans beings (even date them and have sex with them in a luxurious basement) with next to no sequels, psychic disorders, …

   “Stiles was awfully interested in if gay guys found him attractive for a “straight” guy.”

   That was clearly meant as a joke. Our interpretations differ on that, I realise, but I stand by my statement (as you no doubt will stand by yours. So… yeah…)

   “He was eyeing Derek up in the early seasons before he got to know Derek[…]”

   Again, with the interpretation.

   “He checked out one of the Calaveras in season 4, he flirted with Derek in season 2[…]”

   Sorry, he what? Oh, right, yes, silly me, I saw that as yet again another queer-baiting joke.” Actually no, I didn’t see it as such since I saw no teasing. Whatsoever. Nowhere.

   “[…]he also took Danny’s offer of having sex with him seriously in 3A.”

   Again, with the joking. I seem to have a problem with it. I always fail to grasp those moments where Stiles clearly shows doubt about his sexuality in a serious, non-comical, sincere manner. Which is what he was doing when asking Danny if he’d be okay to sleep with him.

   “When asked if he liked boys in 3B, Stiles got a look of realization on his face and didn’t answer, which is an answer in and of itself.”

   Right. Right right right. Of course. Sorry. I see what you mean. It’s the whole ‘bi/gay/straight/anythingyouwant until proven otherwise.’, isn’t it? As long as it’s not clearly stated, anyone can be anything. But then there’s the look and you correct, no wordy explanation required. We can clearly see, in Stiles’s deep gaze, that he’s coming to terms with his attraction towards boys.

   “How are the parallels wishful thinking? Remember the Stilinski rule for establishing patterns? Four is enough for a warrant and we are way beyond four parallels. They exist and were created to be that way. Jeff even acknowledged the parallels and said they were important during a Tumblr Q&A session while 3A was airing. In another Tumblr Q&A he said Derek an Laura went to Splash Bar while they were in New York. Splash Bar is a gay bar.”

   And every person who goes into a gay bar is gay. Obviously.

   “if Stiles and Derek were a guy/girl combination the show would play up their attraction. But they’re not a guy/girl combination” which is exactly the type of common thinking Teen Wolf set out to dismantle. Teen Wolf is treating Stiles and Derek exactly the same as if they were a guy/girl pairing, we just have trouble seeing it through our own expectations of “straight until proven otherwise”

   If you can’t see that Sterek is being purposefully developed, I can’t make you. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.”

   Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. Jeff Davis is writing a subtle, profound TV show and I’m…well… mentally challenged, so I don’t interpret it as I should. Like that time when I dreamed I ate a scrumptious red velvet cupcake and I could almost taste it sliding down my throat. But then I woke up and there was no cupcake. And if I don’t get off my *** to go to the grocery store and buy the necessary ingredients to actually bake that f****** cake, there never will be. Just like there won’t be any substantial homo/bisexual relationships if Jeff Davis doesn’t take his pen and write them down…

   On a more serious note, how do you do it, Ravewulf? How do you see solid characterisation (while speaking of Danny. Danny. One of the most grossly underwritten character in the Teen Wolf’s history. No? Nothing? Okay.) when there clearly isn’t? I’m baffled. I’m trying though, to see it through your eyes. At one point, I almost could. Then you said that the actor was injured, explaining his absence and I knew. That you just wished facts into actual events.

Comments are closed.