Why Are Teen Wolf Season 4 Ratings Slipping?

197 thoughts on “Why Are Teen Wolf Season 4 Ratings Slipping?”

1. I think they are losing viewer for exactly the reason you are mentioning here.

   They lost fandom. Fandom can be a barometer of viewership.

   Personally, as a sterek shipper I couldn’t take how we were being treated. The Fandom Awards debatacle cemented my leaving the show.

   That being said, thank you for this article and I hope TW PR doesn’t try to make you remove it. I don’t need another reason to hate them. 🙂

   1. I totally agree with you. I’ve been a Sterek shipper since day one. More in a bromance kinda way though… But I feel like it’s now even taboo to ship them in a bromance kinda way. I sometimes even feel embaresed to ship them.

      I still watch TW, but I’m not a part of their fandom anymore, and I don’t think I ever will be again. TW is the first fandom I’ve ever joined, and the one I’ve been most dedicated to.

      It’s sad that the casts and producers don’t realize they are digging their own grave (haha)… I think that abandoning their fandom will be their death 🙂

2. I completely agree with this article, but I’d like to correct you on one of your facts. You said that it was 2012 during 3B, but it was actually still 2011! Season four is the beginning of 2012. A year has finally passed in four seasons of Teen Wolf, lol.

   (You can see it was still 2011 during 3B because there was a Halloween episode. Seasons one and two of Teen Wolf take place during sophomore year, starting in January of 2011. 3A picks up right after summer ended, at the very beginning of junior year. 3B was still first semester of junior year. And now we are in second semester of junior year, January of 2012.)

   1. Another correction related to this: Danny’s report on Telluric Currents was from 3A not 3B.

      1. hahaha…i can’t believe i missed that…but then again when it comes to Teen Wolf i’ve stopped keeping dates in check…but thanks for the correction…it’s all a mess in my head right now 🙂

         1. No worries, with the amount of errors TW has I think you’re entitled to a little blunder now and then. 😉

            1. A little blunder now and then? There are examples in every episode so it has gone way past ‘now and then’.

         2. It’s okay. Jeff Davis stopped keeping dates in check too.

3. My problem is medical inconsistencies, take Braeden she was shot and dying yet she’s fine the next episode? Where did her wound go? Did it just disappear? From what was shown of it in the clearing and when Derek brought her to the hospital, along with her waking up in bed and wincing and grabbing her abdomen, it would seem that that was where she was shot, and that it was apparently life-saving. So you have a gunshot victim having been shot in the abdomen (given Naloxone to stop the affects of Morphine if it’s used for something other than waking someone up before they leave the surgical table and those that have overdosed on opiates then it’s considered unethical and inhumane to use it), which is always tricky because of all the organs in the abdomen, the risk of obstruction, dead bowel, leakage, etc., yet in the next episode that is more than likely a day later, since we see Derek’s wound, they have sex? She just had surgery, yet she gets up from the bed like there’s no problem, Derek yanks her up onto a table but she’s totally fine? Not sure if you know this but those that have had abdominal surgery of any kind are not only kept in the hospital for at least 4 days, they usually never go home sooner (mostly to make sure there are no complications) after that they say no strenuous activity, including sex for at least 3 weeks to a month, because it can pop and rip stitches, can cause major bleeding and even make the wound worse, did you know that standing, sitting and coughing is agony and that to make sure you don’t hurt yourself you’d hold a pillow against your stomach, after all that she goes to Derek’s loft and they have sex? I find that unbelievable and it’s a show about werewolves! How is she not in pain? Did she just lie there and let him do what he wanted? I could have accepted Draeden, maybe even liked it but the ignoring of actual wounds and care for it makes upset, not sure how it sexy and hot when she could possibly pop her stitches out along with intestines, or leak blood all over the place. As a nurse I’m appalled by the scene, and disgusted that saying a person that is healing from surgery is capable to have sex yet not have any repercussion medically.
   I get that the show is about werewolves, but is there a reason the humans characters on the show don’t follow real life humans? Is realism not a thing? I thought Teen Wolf is set in the real world but has supernatural beings as well, so has that changed?

   1. Honestly, I’m not putting it past the writers to have either forgotten that particular detail or disregarded it in favor of Derek and Braeden going at it. They do what they want, logic and rules be damned.

4. I ignore the confusing canon. I know the basic timeline of the actual show, like how the 4 seasons have taken place in a single year. The crap that’s pre-series is what makes no freaking sense, but I ignore it in favor of my own theories. I think the props person needs to be fired for all of their crappy errors. Season 1-3b took place in 2011, they’re morons for putting 2013 or whatever on props. Same goes for Malia’s birth certificate. I can’t even with that nonsense.

   The lack of LGBT rep. and trying to control the fandom is what’s getting to me the most. Like, eff you people for teasing about Stiles being bi for 4 years and not do anything with it. That’s not even about Sterek, to be honest. I’m bi and I just want a character to relate to. The fandom isn’t the show’s territory to control so they just need to give it up. I think anyone giving into The Collective is a sell out.

   I won’t stop watching the show for reasons I won’t go into because it would take forever to explain, but I’m glad the ratings are going down. I don’t want it to be cancelled. I just want them to go low enough for them to realize their screw ups (which I’m not even sure they’ll notice). We don’t want these pointless hook ups. We don’t watch the show for that crap. Sure, its in character for Derek, but I’m tired of him jumping into bed with the first pretty lady that’ll give him the time of day, especially when she KILLS FOR MONEY. And don’t even get me started on Stiles/Malia, that crap makes me physically ill. I literally mute the show during those scenes.

   1. This is my biggest problem with Teen Wolf. I was already losing interest in Teen Wolf because I was sick of my favorites leaving the show, my absolute favorite Derek getting his butt kicked every week, and the mess that is Stalia. But they teased Stiles was bi, Jeff Davis even admitted they “hinted at the possibility,” and then nothing. When Dylan O’Brien did that interview a few months ago where he pretty much said all the hinting was played for laughs, that’s when I lost the last of my enthusiasm for Teen Wolf. I haven’t even bothered to watch S4.

      1. I probably would’ve stopped watching by now, but my love for the show has run so deep, that I just try to focus on the few good things left. Stalia and Draeden both make me physically ill. The whole bi thing proves that Jeff is an utter piece of sh*t. I can’t believe we all used to say he was a gift during seasons 1 and 2. They’re just queerbaiting with the whole bi!Stiles thing. Now, if Holland or Hoechlin don’t return in season 5, I won’t stop watching, but they won’t be getting my view. I’ll be watching online the next day and not on mtv’s site either. I won’t even live tweet or reblog their gifs on tumblr.

5. totally agree. it’s sad but true. it has (had) so much potential but they f**ked it up 🙁

6. This article sums up exactly everything that is wrong with the show since season 3.
   Bravo!

7. As a fan who is solely watching just to make sure they give Scott McCall the ending he truly deserves, I can’t help but agree with everything this article points out. While part of me understands how hard it is to give character development to every character in your story when you only have 12 episodes, another part of me wonders why Jeff is deciding to remedy that by just adding MORE characters.

   Jeff’s writing style has been the same every season. He does that two handed trick where he holds up one hand and waves it all about with meaningless (drama-inducing) spoilers that never happen and dumb subplots to grab your attention and then when you’re not looking he uses the other hand to stab you in the back. And that used to work. For two seasons. Then it became drone. The parallels that Jeff is supposedly throwing in there don’t seem to be parallels anymore, rather just recycled dialogue and plot points that he throws around. It’s sad. Because he really did make me fall in love with these characters, but now he’s just destroying them bit by bit.

   And don’t even get me started on PR. You know it’s bad when people look at the PR work and can’t decipher who the main character is because they continue to cater to the characters who have bigger online fanbases. I’ve had friends who are honestly surprised that the show isn’t about Stiles and his trusty-sidekick Derek. (Baiting with Sterek back in season 2 is ultimately where they used their powers… and in turn lost the respect of their fans.) If it’s not gonna happen, it’s not gonna happen. But the line blurred between canon and not canon when Jeff Davis joked about the ship and ultimately things got messy. Sterek fans went from being incredibly appreciated to suddenly being isolated as “what’s wrong with the fandom.”

   To even begin to fix what’s broken, first Jeff needs to stop throwing new characters at his audience and instead focus on the characters he already has. (Also, it’d be nice if he stopped placing everyone in relationships. Like, these characters can function without a significant other. I get it, it’s high school. Hormones, yadda yadda. But seriously? Your characters could use a second to learn to stand on their own before they lean on someone else.) And the PR? The PR needs to take a step back from the fandom instead of trying to become the “cool mom” that the fandom never asked for.

   1. THIS !!

8. The depth is there, you just have to work hard at digging it up instead of it being just under the surface. Cupidsbower, Athenadark, and the rest of The Meta Group on Tumblr do an excellent job of analyzing canon. As for why we don’t get things like funerals, Teen Wolf is a plot driven show, not a character driven show. If we are shown something, it will be important to the plot eventually even if it doesn’t become important until later seasons. Kate’s funeral was important to the plot as it foreshadowed she wasn’t really dead, but it took until the end of 3B for that to show up again. Teen Wolf also has a show vs tell dichotomy in that what is said sometimes contradicts what we are shown. We are told Scott is werewolf Jesus, but we are shown he is Anakin Skywalker (he also has a decent amount of internalized racism against werewolves giving he’ll trust hunters before other wolves or Stiles and fears his wolf side when no other werewolf has a problem). We were told Derek was a villain in the beginning, but we are shown he is a victim and a hero. Malia’s story is an allegory for colonists trying to “civilize” the natives. Derek used sex as a weapon to distract Braeden and snoop through her stuff (see Cupidsbower’s “Derek’s Choice: The Path of Needles, or the Path of Pins” for Derek’s character arc, it’s an interesting reversal of the original Little Red Riding Hood story). I make no excuses for TW PR though. You’re better off pretending PR, interviews, etc don’t exist as they will mislead you from what is really going on.

   1. The funeral was not related with the return of Kate, this scene was used for the introduction of the character of Gerard. The article due to mentioning the holes in the canon of Teen Wolf, what some see is their own interpretation of events and not the vision of the writers of Teen Wolf. It should take only the official statements and not inventions of fans.

      1. Things can and often do have multiple meanings. Gerard could have been introduced through other means, but they specifically chose Kate’s funeral. Kate’s funeral was the only funeral we’ve had and Kate came back. Jeff had planned for Kate to come back since season 1, so it absolutely is foreshadowing.

         The Meta Group uses the references that the show gives us as well as literary theory, color theory, film theory, and more that are all well established tools for writers. The Meta Group are following the patterns that Teen Wolf has established, not creating their own story. The predictions they make off of their analysis of canon are more often right than they are wrong, so it is safe to say they have a good handle on what’s going on. You should try reading some of the work they do before you dismiss it out of hand.

         1. I would totally agree more on the meta here, except I’ve read too much interesting meta that ended up amounting to nothing on the show. Going from that, a lot of the patterns found in Teen Wolf I honestly believe to be completely accidental on the writers’ part. Most of it seems unintentional. I do enjoy reading the meta, though. It makes for good inspiration, and if I had any talent or motivation for writing, I’d try to write some fics based on it.

         2. I don’t see the interest to read their work (with a one in two chance of being wrong), knowing that their conclusion is very random, and whatever the model they take to analyze different scenes. There was no mention of empty coffin in the beginning of season 2, the only thing which is come to this cemetery is the Omega who eat the liver of a dead and Isaac was “attack” . There’re only speculate (I don’t blame them for that).

         3. Meta is all fine and good, however, the writers of the show are not that intelligent. They didn’t plan for the return of Kate when they showed her funeral. It was strictly to introduce Gerard. What you don’t seem to realize is that there are no long term goals with this show. You can’t examine it as a series. You can only break down each season on it’s own. The continuity is not consistent from season to season because each season is stand-alone. The writers sit down and say, “Okay, so what is going to happen THIS season.” They may tie in something that has already transpired, but if they do it’s by the seat of their pants. It’s not planned ahead.

            That’s the problem I have with this show. There is no end game. Usually a series cannot predict how long it’s going to run, but the writers still have an idea of what direction they want to take. TW has no direction and it never has. Jeff Davis said flat out that he had nothing planned beyond the first season because he didn’t know if it would go further than that, so your claim that he had prior knowledge of bringing Kate back is entirely fabricated.

            You can site meta all day long, but it isn’t relevant to the show. Meta is written by the fandom. We see patterns and want to believe there’s a deeper meaning, and if the writers were more clever, sure, the meta is a valid argument, however, in this case, the folks who write the meta are far more intelligent than those who write the show.

            When you watch Teen Wolf, you can’t link anything currently going on to a previous season. You can’t say that an event in season one shaped what is now taking place. It didn’t. The writers don’t plan that far ahead. They make it up as they go along and it’s just luck if it happens to reflect previous material. This is why there are so many plot gaps.

            You are 100% correct when you stated that it is plot driven and not character driven. The characters are molded around whatever current plots they’ve come up with, and that’s why we get inconsistencies. That’s why Derek’s age changes each season. As far as the writers are concerned, the details of his character are irrelevant, as are the details of any character. These things can be changed to fit whatever story they’ve come up with, and that’s what we call BAD WRITING. If Derek was 19 when in S1, why is it that he’s now closer to Peter’s age in S4 when only a year has transpired within the timeline? It doesn’t make any sense at all, but the writers don’t care about that stuff. It’s all superficial. It’s the same reason why Stiles is acting very out of character this season compared to previous ones. They needed his character to do things currently taking place, and it doesn’t matter to the writers if they have to completely change his personality to accomplish this. It’s just bad. There’s really no other way to describe it. It’s just really bad.

            1. I agree, next time I will express my views better; “BIGREDCRAZYK” to do better than me. It was not the work of meta that I contested but indirectly the writing of Teen Wolf’s writers.

            2. That is your view, not fact. We can have differing views and each believe we have evidence that we are right, but we will not know for a fact until after the show is over.

               I do see constants in TW throughout the seasons even if you don’t. For one thing, the quantity and quality of parallels there are don’t just “happen” on their own, it takes work to set it up. We’ve been told lighting is important and there are themes connected to it. All the way back in 1×01 there is a book title, “Kafka’s Metamorphosis,” written on the board. It’s the story of a brother and sister who try to cope with the brother being turned into an insect-like creature, but eventually they decide they need to part ways because their interactions are no longer emotionally healthy for either of them. We’ve been seeing this with Stiles questioning how useful he is to Scott and telling Scott when he is wrong. Stiles is constantly ignored by Scott even when Stiles actually is nearly always right. Stiles is a Cassandra character, a prophet who is never believed.

               There are plenty more books, movies, plays, and video games shown or referenced that are used for themes and story arcs. There are themes of racism, sexism, abuse, othering, and more that span all the seasons. Yes, the writers do screw up and have bad writing at times with events, but the themes and character arcs remain constant.

               Scott has his father’s flaws of abuse and lying by omission. He’s told he’s the “chosen one” when all the evidence points the other way. His claim of no one else dying was almost immediately contradicted by his dad saving Stiles by killing the chemist and Scott’s dad showing you can kill to protect and save while taking responsibility for your actions. Scott’s on a dark arc and that’s only become more clear with his dream of Mute leading his actions to kill Liam. Scott always has a bad guy to take the blame for the bad stuff he does. He blamed Derek in S1 when Derek did nothing, the with Gerard in S2, Deucalion in S3A, Garrett in S4 he goes along with their plans because he says he “had no choice” when he actually did. There are references both to Star Wars and to Othello here.

               Stiles is not OOC, he’s always been an asshole and he’s grown up and become more serious after the nogitsune experience. He acts weird around Malia both because he’s lying about Peter and he’s trying to “civilize” her from her coyote ways. He treats her like a pet in training some of the time and views her as his responsibility. It’s an allegory for colonists “civilizing” natives when they were better off in their own cultures (Malia being better off staying in the coyote culture she had grown up in than before Stiles and Scott forced her into the human world again).

               I see this and a whole lot more. Just because most of the fandom has chosen to go with “bad writing” as an excuse instead of trying to figure out what’s going on does not automatically mean the whole thing is trash. We won’t know for sure which of us is correct until after it’s over. The shape of the story so far looks like we’ll get some payoffs by the end of this season , but most of the stuff will be in season 5.

               Things to look out for: Stiles facing off against Kate, Derek probably sacrificing himself, Stiles being revealed as Derek’s anchor and saving Derek, at least the start of Scott going dark, a schism between Stiles and Scott (although that might be season 5). Danny might be the benefactor due to seeing all the death etc from the outside and not knowing which side was “good.” Derek having played Braeden, but possibly they both played each other (he used sex as a weapon to distract her and snoop through her weapons after she was asleep, this references Kate using sex as a weapon, Derek distracting the deputy in S2, Erica jumping Derek during training in S2). Derek being recognized as a hero and having inherited the Protector of BH title from his mom in season 5 (with or without becoming alpha again, meeting her on the nemeton in a passing of the crown moment, king of the chess board, Jennifer said he was worth three guardian sacrifices and could take the place of the parents). Romantic Sterek by the end of season 5. You probably think this stuff is crazy, but you haven’t read the meta and seen their arguments and proof. Until you do that you cannot fairly judge the conclusions that they have reached.

               1. This pretty much sums up how I feel about the show in response to what you had to say.
                  ________________________________

                  As a fan of TW, why I’m no longer watching the show…

                  I wanted Boyd and Erica to be together instead of getting killed off. I wanted Danny to find his place in the pack, and I wanted to know just how close he and Jackson were. (“You remember all the times I told you you’re not my type?” “FYI: I’m everyone’s type.”)

                  I wanted Scott to explore his relationship with Allison and Isaac instead of growing distant from them. I wanted the twins to redeem themselves and become Scott’s trusted allies. I wanted to know not only more about Derek’s past, but also his family’s history. (Why were the Hales so revered?)

                  I wanted to see Cora become a solid member of Scott’s pack, and likewise, I wanted to see Jackson remain in Beacon Hills to eventually embrace the others as pack. I wanted to learn more about Stiles’ mother and why her death affects him so adversely. I wanted Sheriff and Melissa’s relationship to develop into a romantic one.

                  I wanted to see Malia cope with the murders of her mother and sister, and have issues reaching far beyond math class. I wanted to see Allison’s death affect everyone to the core, and even without a funeral, I wanted her name mentioned regularly so that we know the wound is still fresh. I wanted to see Isaac and Chris lean to each other for support after the tragedy and adopt a father/son relationship. I wanted to see Scott lose his shit after someone mentions Allison negatively.

                  I wanted Lydia to become a stone-cold, bad girl after Jennifer’s attempt at her life. (Not every development of a character’s personality should be a good one.) I wanted to see more characters fall from grace, and also the ones with dark intent rise from the shadows. I wanted to see some of the good guys become villains and vice versa. I wanted either redemption for Peter in the self-sacrificing sort of way, or I wanted him to remain true to his character and be a very VERY bad man.

                  I wanted to see Scott learn how to shift into full werewolf form as Peter had done in S1. I wanted Gerard to eventually heal from the mountain ash and rise as a powerful, werewolf foe. I wanted Jennifer to live past 3A and become a dangerous, forced ally in the following season. I wanted Stiles’ bisexuality to be solidified with a male relationship. (Derek would be great, but I’m not picky.)

                  I wanted this show to be more than superficial bullshit that I don’t care about. I wanted to see character depth and development. I wanted this show to be driven not only by circumstance, but also by the characters and their relationships with each other. I wanted the plot twists to hit hard and be meaningful. I wanted every single action to have resonating effects. I wanted continuity in the details, and instead of each season being an entirely new plot, I wanted the story to build every season as one coherent vision.

                  Any number of these things would have been great. I’d have looked forward to tune in each week if it was like that, and in many ways, the first two seasons embodied this for me. Yes, there were some plot gaps. Yes, it wasn’t the best writing possible, but it was mostly coherent and the impact of the first season greatly affected the second. You can watch them back-to-back and it seemed as if the vision was there. You saw a plot continue to unfold from S1 to S2, but then it all fell apart after that. It was like they ran out of steam.

                  The writers and Jeff Davis should have sat down after S2 and outlined everything. “Okay, we have a great starting point. Let’s build on what we have and make this a truly special series. Let’s figure out the end game right here, right now.” Instead, they tried to cram in as much as they could because they seemed to be under the impression that more is better. I’m not sorry in saying that type of storytelling is a sham. You don’t have to go all out to make something amazing. 3A should have been strictly alpha pack, and then 3B should have been the Darach story.

                  Take your time. Slow down. Don’t skim on the details. Make sure your foundation is solid and that your plot gaps are few and far between. As a writer, that’s how I do it. You don’t need all these over-the-top story lines. Keep it simple; make the characters the driving force of the plot instead of the events. Yes, you must occasionally throw a wrench in to keep it interesting, but you don’t come at your audience with a chainsaw and expect them not to run screaming.

                  This is why Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad and In The Flesh are such great series. It really has less to do with the plot and more about how the characters react to what’s going on around them. Teen Wolf terribly lacks in this department, and it’s why the fans, like myself, are choosing not to watch. We want to go on the journey with the characters, but instead we’re just kinda swept along with them. You eventually reach a point where it’s just not entertaining anymore and decide it’s time to get off the ride.

                  1. This!! all of this is what everyone were expecting after S2. it’s so disappointing see what this show became. 🙁

                  2. The show isn’t going to be able to satisfy everyone, especially when PR and fanfic present an altered version of the story TW is trying to present. I read meta to understand the underlying themes and lessons that can be found in TW. Understanding that has led me to enjoy the show.

                     I’m honestly excited for Stiles facing off against Kate, Scott having his dark arc and falling (he is FAR from the angel fandom likes to present him as), Stiles (and possibly Lydia) splitting off from Scott to form a new Hale pack of sorts (Derek has never been and will never be part of Scott’s pack; Scott broke and doesn’t deserve Derek’s trust), and eventual romantic Sterek.

                     If you don’t think that’s possible or wouldn’t enjoy that story, then you are always free to leave the show and live in fanfics.

                  3. You can’t really blame them too much about Erica and Jackson, the actors left the show.

                  4. Hopefully you’ll be okay with me reposting this on tumblr.

               2. As far as who’s right and who isn’t, I go by what the cast and creators say. That’s basing my opinions on fact, or at least what Jeff Davis says as fact. That’s what I do. There’s no room for interpretation that way. It is what it is because they said so. I don’t base my opinion on meta, which is born entirely from the fandom’s perception of the show. It has nothing to do with the reality. So when you say “that’s your view, not fact,” I’m going to tell you to [[REMOVED BY ADMIN]]

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                  3. The thing is that Jeff, the cast, and TW PR in general regularly lie and misdirect viewers.

                     Remember everything they said about Jennifer before it was revealed she was the Darach? How they said Stiles was Malia’s mate only to have it be a problematic relationship doomed to fail? Holland saying Danny wouldn’t be in S4, then Keahu saying he couldn’t say, then it finally coming out that Danny would be in S4? Scott being billed as werewolf Jesus only to show him as a flop and appears to be going the way of Anakin Skywalker. There’s that one video where a publication thought it would be hot for Derek and Kate to get back together. PR is meant to sell the show to get new viewers watching and people talking, not to accurately explain the show. Frankly what PR is doing is plain unethical, but to them the only bad press is no press.

               3. The point is that meta aware of the speculative nature of their analysis, unlike you he does not seek to show the “truth”, but simply trying to help the fans understand the show with their means are the (it’s why I respect their work).

                  1. There are parts that are speculation and there are parts that are fact. The speculation parts vary from throwing ideas out to see what sticks all the way up to well established patterns that have mountains of evidence behind them. The meta writers that I check in with (some of whom have PHDs in literature and know how to both recognize this stuff and recognize how good the writers are) make a clear distinctions between these different levels.

                     1. I want to clarify that my comments were not a judgment against you, I can fully understand that you can have confidence in the judgment of some meta, in my case I remain skeptical. With that, I think we can leave us in harmony.

                        1. Sounds good to me 🙂

9. This is spot on. I started this show because I heard it was so LGBT friendly and groundbreaking, but then they stopped even trying to be those things when the show got popular. It’s like they used us for popularity and now that they’re the most successful show on MTV they don’t care about us anymore because #nohomo and straight couples look hot together.

10. If the casual viewers aren’t as interested anymore, then I can’t really blame them. This show seems to be all over the place now. It’s a jumbled mess of ideas and characters. Nothing is linear. Plus, the plot holes are starting to become even more obvious. For one, Derek and Braeden shouldn’t have even had sex with each other because they were both supposed to be injured. Braeden was shot and near death in the episode before last, yet in the next episode she’s completely healed, and going by the previews, there’s not even a scar. Her bullet wound is nonexistent, like it never happened. Props department appears to be lazy as shit. It’s not hard to come up with a birth date that makes sense, but I guess it takes too much effort for them.

    As for Sterek, I’m more upset by their relationship being scrapped almost entirely instead of getting to see it develop on screen. They’re closer than they were before, might even view each other as friends, and we don’t get to see that development. Instead, Derek is hardly interacting with Scott and the others at all for the sake of making sure Stiles and Derek have as few scenes together as possible and Derek being put into a pointless romance.

    TPTB once told fans to stop watching the show if they didn’t like it anymore, and that’s what we did.

    1. I just need to say that I agree with everything so much. This is actually sad how “bad” Teen Wolf became, like rarely something make sense these days in the show and obvious mistakes and plot holes are just unacceptable. There are always mistakes on movies and shows, I get that, but when there is one mistake after another and like one big plot hole instead of the actual plot, no wonder people get tired with it. And when we add the whole drama and PR who tell us what we should think, who to like and what to do, well, no thanks. I remember when watching every new episodes was fun, good old times. Apparently we can’t go back.

       1. Can you tell me what PR means? I didn’t meet with this term before.

          1. Public Relations

    2. “TPTB once told fans to stop watching the show if they didn’t like it anymore, and that’s what we did.” <<< PERFECT ENDING SENTENCE!!!

11. Can we – not just Teen Wolf Fandom but ALL fandoms – stop saying things like ” ignoring the fact that Jeff Davis took an amazing female POC and decreased her role to a mere love interest”

    It almost is ALWAYS said about women of color, and it is NEVER said of white characters like Allison (where this actually did happen in season 4). It usually comes across as just not wanting a black woman to have a love interest, because “she is stronger than that.” It has been repeatedly used in Star Trek, Sleepy Hollow, and the upcoming Dragon Age video game. And I am so sick of hearing about it. There have been multiple reasons as to why Malia should not be in a relationship, but its never “She’s a strong woman character who has been reduced to a love interest”

    Now, I agree with a lot of your other points, especially the problems in the canon of the show, but this is a large pet peeve of mine, and is driving me out of the fandom. And its upsetting to see it propagated, because I have only seen white, Sterek fangirls, use this argument

    1. I’m not sure what parts of the fandom you hang out in, but I’ve read a lot of anger about Allison, Lydia, Malia and also Jennifer being reduced to love interests with little plot of their own. So I wouldn’t automatically assume a racial correlation.

       1. i didn’t want to upset anyone, especially someone who’s a part of fandom (any fandom for that matter)…i am not a white Sterek fangirl…i’m not white or a girl 🙂

          like Eccehomo said, i wasn’t going for a racial correlation. Allison was introduced as a love interest, the same for Lydia and Jeniffer so, them being reduced to mere love interests was a given….i was so happy when Allison and Scott broke up at the end of S2 (no offense to shippers) because i thought it would give her more to do, but they immediately started the Issac thing in 3B…and i’m still waiting for Lydia to do something impressive soon

          Brae was introduced as a strong mercenary (her color hasn’t anything to do with it in a sense cos the mercenary could’ve been white, but it was good to see POC’s in TW that introduced a lot of white characters)…but in S4 all she has done is be overshadowed by the Brae/Derek thing (at least for me, and other fans i know)

          even with Malia, as far as i can remember all the promotion for her was concerned with her being Stiles’ new love interest and not focusing on her as an individual character

          1. So, different K here, not the original poster up there, but I think that’s what bothers me most about romantical relationships on TW. They seem to be doing okay with not bringing Stiles and Malia’s relationship up at every point, but ultimately, even if a female character isn’t introduced as a love interest, that’s usually what she gets reduced to. I’m not saying that Braeden is just a LI, but her relationship with Derek has become the focus of her story now. Kira wasn’t introduced as just a LI either, but more often than not her scenes or dialogue always come back to her relationship with Scott. Which would be cute and all if this season was more like seasons 1&2 and the life or death situations weren’t as bad as they are now.

             As much as I like Scira and Stalia, I would have loved to see Kira and Malia (and Braeden) be introduced to the show with no plans for romance, at least for the first season they were on the show.

    2. But we do say the same thing about Malia. Though usually not the strong character part. It’s more like “JD took this potentially interesting female character and reduced her to a LI without giving her any kind of believable development whatsoever.”

       Basically, Jeff Davis didn’t bother with actually doing research into what would happen to Malia psychologically, socially or developmentally when he created her and turned her into a coyote for 8 years. He admits this, and basically keeps hoping fans will forgive him and just believe it, because he’s a lazy writer and can’t be bothered with research.

       Yeah, no. Sorry. And this is a habit he unfortunately has with all the women in the show. It’s like they rarely have any real substance unless their storylines tie into being some kind of love interest for one of the guys.

       Putting aside the the whole she shouldn’t be even moving around with a gut wound, WTF, because WTAF?!, Braeden’s supposed to be a mercenary. She’s fine now apparently, inexplicably. Why is she not doing her job out there, instead of hanging around the loft boning one of the dudes that’s paying her? She’s been reduced to a LI in one freaking episode. It’s ridiculous.

       1. ^ THIS

          The issues Malia would have aren’t even MENTIONED. Sure, people handle trauma differently, but with Malia’s backstory and frick, with Derek’s backstory, you’d think there’d be at least something reflected in-show.

          But nope. Everything’s fine. Look at smart and fun they are! Pay no attention to the assorted trauma and psychological issues behind the curtain.

    3. Can you tell me where that’s been said in Sleepy Hollow and Star Trek? First Abby has a guy she has slept with it doesn’t change who she is, and then there is Andy (John Cho) that is in love with her but doesn’t take away from who she is. Are you talking about Uhura when you say Star Trek? Because in TOS she was loved and no one cared who she was with, people wanted her with Kirk, I’ve not really seen any problem in the reboot except for those who want Spock and Kirk together but I’ve never seen anyone say it ruined her character because she was better than that.

12. If any one at MTV is reading this – and given what happened to the last article that was critical of TW on this site, I’m sure you are – please, read this article and LEARN from it.
    It eloquently and cogently summarises everything the fandom has been saying for the last couple of seasons. It elegantly explains why so many of us have just stopped watching.

    1. Was there an article that got messed with on here? The only one I know about is the one from Fangirlish that was taken down…

       1. We haven’t been asked to remove anything from this website and we would not comply if they requested that we remove anything.

          -Admin Angel

13. My biggest issue is that they’re being too wasteful with their supernatural elements.
    In Season One it was good. They only had werewolves, and explained to me what the rules and limits of being a werewolf are (even if some questions remained). Season Two and 3A were also fine, they introduced the Kanima, and made a good job at explaining it, and 3A featured mostly the already established werewolves.

    Starting with the introduction of the Darach I felt as if things got out of hand. In season 3B we suddenly had Kitsunes, Neo-Kitsunes, Were Coyotes, Were jaguars, Wendigos, Onis, Berserks, etc. It hit a ridiculous level.

    That wouldn’t be so bad if they at least tried to explain all these creatures properly.

    Aiden and Ethan’s fusion: Can only identical twins do it? Or is it enough to be family members, or to share a close enough connection?
    How do the Were Coyote and the Were Jaguar distinguish themself from the Were Wolf? And how come Kate turned into a jaguar while being scratched by a Were Wolf? And Malia into a were Coyote, although she was fathered by the same Were Wolf?
    And how did Kira get to posses her Kitsune power?
    Teen Wolf has unfortunately left these questions open.

    1. i totally agree…the biggest disappointment for me were the kitsune’s…i really want to know more about them…all Kira has done is make her eyes glow, give shocks, and fight with a sword…i want to see her in her ‘Kitsune’ form, with some claws and stuff…i also want to know more about the possible tails she might have…Teen Wolf would be more interesting if it focus’s more on the characters and their powers (was hoping they would go into Kitsune mythology in Season 4 but sigh! they didn’t)

    2. From what I can get from the gif sets and summaries from other posts on Tumblr, I think the werejaguar is supposed to be like the South American version of the kanima. It’s a creature of vengeance, but to how true Teen Wolf will stay to that I don’t know. As for Kate turning into a werejaguar, there’s that one quote from S2 where Derek says that the shape you take reflects who you are inside, or something like that. Malia’s a werecoyote because of her mother, who is also known as the Dessert Wolf, I believe. Kira is a born Kitsune. Her mother was one, also.

    3. Yes, this. They’ve spent way too much time shoving in all these creatures, and have spent no time at all delving into these creatures. What are they? What do they want? Not all supernatural creatures are going to be bad, no good, awful people. What are their backgrounds, their myths. In canon, the pack just goes in head first with rarely any research or idea of what the hell they’re doing, but still come out on top even when they probably shouldn’t with the way they do things. Is it too much to ask for some logic to be put into place? Geez.

14. I want to take articles like this seriously. I really do. But when you start making points about how a woman of color in a romantic relationship reduces her, or about how anything dealing with Sterek is an actual serious issue, or you make it obvious that you’re just being picky about certain things (such as prop fails) that no one has ever really complained that much about before, it gets difficult to care. I can’t bring myself to care about how you feel about Braeden (a black woman) being in a romantic relationship because you being against that is more tied to racism that you either know or want to discuss. Especially considering she has had sex with Derek only once and the season is almost over, and she’s on the show to help find Kate not to be with Derek, and there is no mention of literally all the other things she has done on this show that don’t have anything to do with being romantic with Derek. Remember she’s been on the show since episode 1 of 3A, she’s not new. I can’t bring myself to care about the treatment of the Sterek fandom when being in this fandom has been made an absolute nightmare for non-Sterek shippers (and for minorities in the Teen Wolf fandom. I can’t even get started on how absolutely vile the Sterek fandom has been when it comes to characters of color and female characters, but are able to act like it’s not that big of a deal because they are the biggest part of fandom and can either mask it or convince people not to take it seriously. The rest of fandom is having a bit of an “in your face” moment about what the Sterek fandom is going through, but that’s neither here nor there). I can’t make myself believe that you seriously care about a prop fail with the birth certificate when Teen Wolf has been blessed with prop fails since the dawn of it’s time. Not just prop fails, actual timeline fails of things mentioned in canon, being able to clearly see the faces of stunt doubles, no explanations for how certain people came back to life, no mentions of characters played by actors who left the show.

    The other thing about all of these complaints that bother me (not your complaints but just this neighborhood of concerns in general) is that it seems like people let themselves believe that Teen Wolf was actually something of substance and not just a campy MTV show about hot boys. That has never changed since day one and I don’t think the writers or the PR people have actually changed. I think it’s just that the more intelligent members of the fandom almost seem like they don’t want to accept that they like something shallow and struggle to find meaning in it when really we like it because we think the characters are interesting people. The plot is about as ridiculous as it’s always been (seriously season 1 was the ONLY season that made any kind of sense.)

    I agree about the LGBT representation and I agree about 3A and 3B being a mess, though.

    1. Agreed, sir/madam.

    2. I deeply agree with you. And the non-sterek shipping fans have been feeling ostracized for seasons because the TW PR group has catered to the sterek fandom for so long, encouraging their shipping, acknowledging them on Twitter & Tumblr etc, frankly the non shippers felt like red headed step children. I’m so glad they finally confirmed sterek wouldn’t happen.

       As for LGBTQ storylines (and I agree more are needed), we had the start of one last season with Danny, including love scenes, but everyone forgets about that because if it’s not sterek they don’t think it’s gay representation. I do want more representation, so badly, but it’s really disheartening when it’s clear representation isn’t what people want. Just their two fav boys banging. That’s okay! But I’m tired of people misrepresenting their shipping.

       I stopped reading Geekiary & Fangirlish articles for the most part because every article talks about sterek over the show and are always heavily biased. It would be great to have some variety in the articles & opinions since the teen wolf fandom is large & varied.

       1. I’m the admin of this website and I do not ship Sterek. My three main writers don’t always agree and have had varied opinions on several issues (even writing rebuttals to each others articles). We even have a rule on this website that we aren’t allowed to talk about shipping unless it’s in the form of analysis and media critique. It’s a “shipping light” policy (polls being the only exception to this rule).

          If you are so displeased with this website, though, I can help facilitate a way to cut off further temptation from reading it. I will defend my authors and won’t tolerate unwarranted bashing of them or my website. If you’d like to stop reading, then fine, stop reading. My authors are abiding by the rules I’ve set forth and as someone who DOESN’T ship Sterek, I have no problem with their criticism in regards to queer representation and queer baiting.

          -Admin Angel

          1. The fact that you don’t ship sterek isn’t relevant to the fact that the author probably does. Also isn’t relevant to the fact that almost every teen wolf article on the geekiary makes a point about the current state of sterek fandom. So excuse us for assuming. My personal opinion on what your authors write is as good as yours.

             1. the only reason i mentioned Sterek in the article is cos TW PR has exploited their enthusiasm…does it mean that i ship Sterek? No…Does it mean that i don’t respect other ships? No…Does it mean that it’s true TW has directly used Sterek shippers for votes and stuff? Yes! and that’s why i mentioned it and followed it by saying that the shippers (Sterek and possibly some others) have gotten tired of the trend and stopped being used

                If you feel that our articles are biased…then i do apologize because i know for a fact that is not the intention for the writers of the site…sometimes things don’t come across as i want when i write them down compared to when i say that.

             2. Actually it’s completely relevant because I am very serious about my “shipping light” rule. I’ve rejected or asked for changes on articles that were too much about shipping without analyzing it from either 1) a representation angle or 2) a fandom analysis angle. As someone who doesn’t ship Sterek I have no problem with it being mentioned in this article because it meets the standards I have set for my writers. The mention of Sterek here is absolutely relevant and you don’t have to ship it (as I have made clear that I do not) to recognize that. Because of it’s relevance, this article passes my rules and I’m proud to have it here on this site.

                As far as the frequency of mentions in other articles, if it wasn’t such a huge issue, it might not get mentioned as much. But to say “almost every article” is way overblown and I invite you to look at the Teen Wolf master posts to see all the other wonderful articles my authors have written.

                Season 3B masterpost: https://thegeekiary.com/teen-wolf-masterpost/teen-wolf-season-3b-masterpost
                Season 4 masterpost: https://thegeekiary.com/teen-wolf-masterpost/teen-wolf-season-4-masterpost

                If you’ve only looked at the ones that are mentioning Sterek, you’ve clearly missed a lot of incredible content.

                -Admin Angel

          2. Feels like this was trolling. I’ve posted on twitter and the backlot and tumblr and was inundated the next Monday. When I asked if everyone just came back to work, I got no replies.

       2. I agree more representation is needed and I loved the Danny/Ethan scenes. But at the end of the day, they were pretty shallow in terms of actual representation, neither character was developed outside of their sexualities and that’s the problem. We still know pretty much nothing about either Danny or Ethan other than they sleep with dudes and that Danny knows his way around a computer. TBH, I expect more from my gay characters than that…

    3. I agree about the POC issue, but Braeden was 3×01 she was hired by Morrell and from an interview she was killed by Deucalion they only brought her back because people liked her, then she’s in 1 episode of 3b because she was hired to save Derek by the very same person who slashed her face (the time lapse between that two appearances is maybe a month, august for the 3a episode and maybe early october for her 3b episode, so in real life her facial wounds would still be healing, not completely healed and white, smiling would still hurt, so yeah, not sure how that worked) so not sure why she’s not new, she seems pretty new to me.

       About the Kate thing, if Braeden is on the show to find her may I ask why she’s not? I mean it’s. It like her being should and dying slowed her down. So instead of tracking her down she shows Derek how to defend himself, but instead of following through with that she goes along with the sex? Umm.. okay, let’s both have sex when at any moment an assassin can pop up and kill me, or instead of being with Scott and co and helping them I’m going to sleep with this woman that I paid to find another that screwed me over, that I don’t know anything about and can’t trust, but I won’t ask why she was in that clearing with the dead werewolves from Satomi’s pack, because of course Kate had been there, right? Also an assassin shot her but left her alive, smart, because if Braeden lived she couldn’t ID that person at all. Plus let’s forget she was shot and apparently almost died, but in the very next episode she is completely fine, a little bit of rough sex with no pain or risk of opening stitches, completely believable, but let’s make sure to show Derek’s wound. See does that make any sense?

    4. “I want to take articles like this seriously. I really do. But when you start making points about how a woman of color in a romantic relationship reduces her, or about how anything dealing with Sterek is an actual serious issue, or you make it obvious that you’re just being picky about certain things (such as prop fails) that no one has ever really complained that much about before, it gets difficult to care.”

       If articles like this are being released left and right with just about a common tone that Braeden is being reduced to a love interest, then you better believe it’s an issue. I liked Braeden in 3A, and was one of the crowd who was screaming foul when she was killed the same episode she appeared to, and one of those excited for her return. That doesn’t mean I’m going to swallow whatever bullshit Jeff Davis + writers decided to do with her character hereon out. This article wasn’t criticising Braeden’s person, but the writers’ ability (or lack thereof) to develop her character better. All of her scenes this season are somehow connected to Derek. When she speaks, it is either with Derek or about Derek. And I’m not even gonna delve into that hookup scene because as much as I want both Braeden and Derek to be happy (a moment of distraction, at least), that point was definitely not the time for it. Same thing with the Stalia scene in ‘Echo House’.

       Regarding your Sterek remark, please do clarify because if you’re implying that fans asking for representation from a show who ironically prides itself for its “progressive” LGBT characters (which is a load of bull. All canon gay characters seem to have disappeared and kept at the bottom of the nemeton this season) is not a serious issue, then that’s just wrong. They can’t campaign using queer characters when they need them only to fling them away like dirty laundry when they don’t. It’s not okay to shut down a character’s HEAVILY implied (both on and off screen) bisexuality once it turned inconvenient.

       I understand why some fans feel like racism plays a role in their reception of Braeden, but that, and this is just my opinion, really isn’t the case. Deaton and Morell’s characters are well-received, so are the Yukimuras. It’s not the fans’ fault that teenwolf as a show can’t be bothered to add more PoC characters for us to stan for. Again, everything points out to the show’s issues. Not the fans’, not this article’s.

       1. All of this. I like Scott and Kira together and I loved Boyd and Erica. But I don’t root for Braeden and Derek and that makes me a racist? Give me slow build and romance, not random sex scenes that have little point and do nothing to develop characters.

       2. Thank you AGEWA, you said exactly what i was hoping readers would get from the post about Braeden and there not being LBGT representation in the show…i would’ve been ok with Brae flirting with Derek, it happens…but not letting Brae doing anything else unless it’s somehow connected to Derek is what ruins the character for me…i was happy that she returned (let’s ignore her scars being healed by then and she surviving an alpha slash without turning into some kind of a were)…but i really wasn’t expecting her to be only in the show as an LI for Derek…it’s like Jeff decided to bring in a character we all kind of knew to hookup with Derek rather than bring a new one like he did with Jeniffer

15. I loved that show until I started watching season 4. For me – and I think for a lot of fans – this season is the worst. Too many characters are in, there are a lot of plot holes (countless)and ships like Stalia (I don’t see any chemistry between them, seriously, also their story is very fetched) or Draeden (after few words to each other we saw guns and “dirty sex in bed” seriously Jeff?).
    I noticed something – if the story is becoming more complicated then entire season is getting worse. Jeff and writers think everything is normal but it isn’t. They write the script without any preparation. There are a lot of unfinished plots even from first season! Plots, which should be closed now! They also write new characters stories and forget about older ones. It’s definitely not okay. You know what I hate the most? Internet pages with spoilers for entire season. I know that Jeff and cast members should give us some information about next season and etc. but they give us too much infos. They don’t understand that this thing ruins watching the show! Okay, cast members are okay, they try to not spoil but Jeff tell us almost everything. Geez… I’m watching the show and I want to be in shock when something big happen. Probably someone tell me that I shouldn’t enter to these kind of websites and everything will be ok, but I come on twitter/facebook and see a lot of stuff.
    Another thing – ships. I’m a fervent supporter of non-canon Pydia ship. Of course it doesn’t mean that I hate another ships cause I love almost every ship in this show (expect Stalia). I know from twitter that there are a lot of fans who ship these two (I mean Pydia). So why we don’t see their in the show in some scenes together hmm? I know Pydia isn’t very popular but I think it’s the one of important plots in Teen Wolf and I want to see these 2 in few scenes. I saw a little info about them: “He will work on his relationship with Lydia more this season.”. May I ask where the hell are their scenes? Is Jeff put them in the finale? Jesus Christ -.-‘
    I think that’s all for now from me.

16. Eichen House is what destroyed Teen Wolf for me. Stiles’ and Malia’s behaviour, given their back-stories, completely obliterated my suspension of disbelief and thus their romance scenes came off as incredibly disturbing and laden with consent issues. At that point, I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to watch season 4 and I never watched another episode of 3B until after it had aired so that I knew what I was getting into first. I’ve had enough of Teen Wolf romanticizing situations in which consent is dubious at best.

    The interview with Dylan O’Brien confirming that all of the hints at Stiles being bisexual were just more bricks in Jeff Davis’s throne of lies sealed the deal for me. It’s one thing to bait a queer relationship and quite another to bait a character’s sexual orientation. That’s just incredibly cruel, and as a bisexual myself, I was completely devastated. I had placed a lot of hope in Stiles. I wouldn’t have even needed to see him macking on another dude, just acknowledgement that he likes both. One of the best quotes I ever saw was that Jeff Davis’s vision of Teen Wolf’s world with no homophobia came true because everyone is heterosexual. And that’s all I really have to say about that.

    1. They basically abused of the suspension of disbelief. Put Malia in the Junior year even if she is thirteen and basically have no knowledge over the first grade! This is too much! We can accept her even if she can propelly speak and behave…

17. Hi! I agree on everything! I really hope that PR won’t make this article magically disappear as happened for another one where was enlight all TW problems.
    I don’t even know why I still whatch TW! Maybe for Hobriens and the rest of the cast, because they are amazing (even with the plot holes and the problems with stalia I actually love Shelley), maybe because meta-group makes me believe that there is something under the surface, patterns and messages and God know what.
    But definitely isn’t the show himself. You called DW, which have 12 episode on season but create something even bigger than 4 years of teen wolf. It’s like sturdust and sand.

    1. PR will not make this article disappear.

       -Admin Angel

18. I agree with everything you said. We are indeed too smart for this show and it just hurts being queerbaited (as a Sterek shipper) and being “controlled” by the writers, PR team etc. Plus there were lots of hurtful things happening at Cons and interviews that didn’t sit well with the fandom (or a part of it, at least). And then we go over to In The Flesh or other fantastic shows and you just can’t go back to this piece of crap TV show. Personally, I am just still watching because I am too invested in Stiles, Derek and Lydia to let go, but since I can’t watch it live and wouldn’t if I had the chance and it would mean I could improve their rating with it, I am kind of happy that finally, FINALLY the rating hopefully drop enough to make the TW team question their actions and writing.

19. What I am really mad about is that they are trying to control the fandom, really, how many times they talk about Sterek but in the season 4 you see like the are trying to make we stop shipping they, to me doesn’t really matter so much they dont being canon (we know how it is going they will put and end cliche with stydia ¬¬ no offense to this ship) but they are making then look like they dont even know each other, like one episode in this season that Stiles and Derek are in the same room and they did like everything to not talk or look to each other 🙁

20. If ever there was a parellel universe to Teen Wolf and the way Sterek shippers were treated by TPTB, it would be SPN and the Destiel shippers. We feel your pain.

21. Thank you for writing this. You have put every problem I have with TW into words. It’s so sad because at the beginning it started out with so much potential and so much hope for this show to be something different, something new. It could have been like In the Flesh or Penny Dreadful but instead it’s just turn into this big mess where I feel like they are insult my intelligence.

    It’s the same storyline being repeated but with new different characters, new ways to torture Derek, new romances, new big bad and has gotten boring. I don’t care about any of these new characters; I didn’t care about the ones in season 3 either.

    What I cared about was seeing if Boyd would find his sister, seeing Erica learning to drive, watching Stiles deal with the guilt of someone uses his body to kill, finding out how Cora survived the fire, seeing Derek heal, watching Scott cope without Allison, hearing about how Danny and Jackson become friends, seeing Lydia learning about her powers and Allison getting a funeral, not just out of respect for her character but the fans as well and also the actress. It’s a way of us saying goodbye and they never let it happen. We could of once had a scene with Stiles talking to his mother but instead it was more important to see him making out. I’m forever going to be bitter over this.

    Didn’t Boyd or Erica have parents? Didn’t they wonder where they went or if they knew that they were dead, what did they think was the cause? Also bitter over this.

    I want to watch a show where I feel like the writers actually care about these characters. I don’t want endless new characters that are replacements from the ones that used to be on the show. I want to care about this show again but the writer and the PR team make it very hard.

    Jeff Davis isn’t a gift.

    He is all about the big OMG moments and not giving me an aftermath. Why should I care about a funeral for one of the main characters that I loved when I can see Derek getting it on with another female character? Wohoo more shirtless scenes *rolls eyes*. He always comes across a bit arrogant in some interviews, like him saying he writes the show for himself. Yeah, the show is yours but the moment it aired on TV it became the fans as well. I think he should take some pointers from Bryan Fuller when it comes to treating your fans. I hate that he can’t write female characters without them becoming love interest, I hate that he once got asked about why can’t Lydia stay single and he said didn’t we want her to be happy? Lydia is my favourite and he promised so many great things about her this series but I’m not seeing it.

    The way the Stiles/Derek fans have been treated literally turns my stomach. I have never been in a fandom where the show has literally made a ship into a disease, a word you can’t speak of and in doing this had made them fans feel like they should be ashamed and that just makes me disgusted with the show, the writers, the PR and even some of the actors. After comic con this year I lost all respect for the show.
    You don’t have to understand why some people like what they like but you can damn well respect it. Jeff Davis should have said something like that at the start of this but instead he used them to win polls and to get this show noticed. Whether you like Sterek or not you can’t deny they played a big part in getting this show out there. I can’t believe his answer to getting rid of this pairing is to not let them have any scenes together and that’s kind of childish in a way and I honestly can’t think of another show that has done this.

    It’s not just the show that is a mess but the PR team. How hard did this push Malia on us? Why couldn’t we just watch the show and decide for our self like we did with Kira. They kept promoting us to vote for the Sterek Champion but the moment they win, it’s the Teen Wolf award. They only want positive views about their show and ignore any others.

    It’s such a shame it’s ended up being a show that I doubt people with remember when it’s over. Well, maybe it will but I highly doubt it will be in a positive light.

    Jeff Davis once told us if we didn’t like the show then stop watching and that’s exactly what I’m going to do.

    1. I wanted more Erica and Boyd, I get Gage left for other things but Sinqua didn’t even know he was going to die until he got the script, he thought that after excuse of ‘Motel California’ he thought that we’d get more of Boyd’s backstory, that we’d learn more about him in later episodes, so it’s sad that he had to learn about it when he got the script (Sinqua talked about it at a con).

    2. Seconding this. You managed to put into words most of my frustrations about teenwolf.

    3. I agree with everything you’ve said in the post. I remember how excited and happy I was when I first started watching the show. But maybe I expected too much?
       After the end of third season and Kate’s return, the first thing I said to my friend was: I’m not watching the next season. I just couldn’t stand Derek being hurt again and being tortured. Not even my love for Stiles, papa Stilinski, Melissa, Lydia and Derek was enough.. Cut to the beginning of this season and I decided to give it a try only to see Kate using kid Derek again. No, thank you. Not again. I’ll always have fanfiction which, most of the time, is written better than the canon anyway.

       L.

    4. All of this!

    5. This, right there. Thank you.

22. This is a great article that, I feel, begins to formalize a lot of the criticisms of a show that has/had a lot of potential to be something really special. Jeff is like the kid on your block who has cool toys that he lets you look at then breaks them in front of you. When you get upset he just shrugs and tells you they’re his toys and if you don’t like it oh well– he does what he wants! We’re not invited to join in playing, just to observe what he chooses to do. Which ok.

    My problem is I’m in a catch-22: If Jeff kills Derek I’ll finally be free of this show, but I really don’t want Derek to die.

    :T trapped

23. You’ve all hear of the boy who cried wolf….

24. Thank you for pointing out these facts. TW used fans to make itself famous, and then turned around and started trying to herd cats. Even if I wasn’t a Sterek fan, the fact that Jeff used Sterek to make a name for himself and then turned around and tried to make it go away? Amazing. Remember the film clip of Dylan and Tyler on a “ship” and how they winked and joked around about how they were on a ship and how awesome Sterek was? You know, that kind of playfulness is appreciated by fans. It’s not that they had to make Sterek canon (although that seemed to be what they SAID they were going to do), but they could have left it playful, left it fun. They could LET Stiles and Derek have screen time together and let the fans do with it what they would – which is how the classy TV shows do it. Most actors and show runners go “Well, that’s great, I’m glad the fans are being creative and having fun.” They make it fun and playful and they don’t jump on the fans for wanting character X and character Y to get into bed, they go on with the plot they had in mind, and they don’t make promises they can’t and won’t keep.

    Unlike Jeff Davis who has lied. There was an online contest “If Teen Wolf wins we’ll have an online chat with Tyler and Dylan together!” It never happened, even though TW won. And of course the recent “Collection” of TW fan stuff – “Come here and put your stuff here and never have to comb the internet for TW fan stuff again!” Are they kidding? We don’t need a show to tell fans how to SHARE.

    It’s a dreadful thing, what TW has become. It was clever in the beginning, it was about characters and people struggling with evil, and I loved that. Now we have the monster of the week (or the moment) and there are no repercussions. Never. What’s the fun in that?

25. Great article! Totally agree!

26. I disagree with many of these criticisms, I mean, I understand how some people might be turned off by the show because of this, though I’m not. Although, I am a very big fan of the show and might be a bit of a homer, I just don’t see these criticisms as a major issue as to why people should or should not watch the show.

    The timeline has been horrifically handled, yes, but I just don’t quite see it as a massive distraction to the enjoyment of the show, they’ve explicitly implied as to what Malia’s age should be, a poor handling of a birth certificate prop really shouldn’t change that, not to defend how poorly they’ve handled it. It’s a nuisance, but it shouldn’t be a major one, they haven’t said something like Derek being born a human in one episode and then saying he was born a werewolf in another, or anything along those lines.

    The LGBT representation is ample. The fact they’ve portrayed it as much as they have, and how (well in my opinion and I”d think most people’s opinions) well they’ve depicted it. They don’t force anything, they don’t depict sexuality as some sort of hot button issue in terms of worrying over whether someone’s straight or gay, and I think that’s how society should be, they shouldn’t worry about someone’s personal life in that respect. They’ve never hinted at Stiles being bi-sexual, they’ve hinted him at simply being curious at the very most, which is how most teenagers really are, they are curious about sexuality in that point in their lives, doesn’t mean they necessarily explore it, they’re just curious, and that’s all he’s been depicted as, he’s never been implied to want to pursue some sort of relationship or experiment. Trying to force representation isn’t going to help anything, and trying to force characters to be something they’re not because you want them to be that way is just not the way to go. They’ve represented the issue well, they don’t overwhelm or underwhelm with the content, and in general they treat sexuality as a non-issue, which is how it should be. I think it’s disrespectful in itself to say they’ve poorly represented it. I’m not trying to speak what the idea of a cause should or should not be, I’m simply saying the show has depicted the issue well and has treated the spectrum of sexuality as well, as a non-issue. But I’m going off on a completely different tangent

    I think the issue with “icing” is really non-constructive, they’ve developed characters plenty, the development and chemistry between characters is what gravitates a lot of people towards the show. It’s not perfect of course, but I thin Teen Wolf does this better than many other shows, and the show in general has a lot of deep themes and ideas that you really need to think about as opposed to having it shoved right in your face like many other shows depict. And they need to move on with the story, the tagline of this season is “Can’t Go Back”, they can’t go back and keep delving about what happened, it is incredibly sad from their perspective, but they can’t let it overwhelm them. It would’ve been nice to have a sort of memorial episode for Allison, but that would be more fan service than actually progressing the show.

    This season definitely hasn’t been as strong as the last, but I still find it enjoyable, and I think people are really nitpicking at issues, nitpicking because it’s how they want the show to be, rather than analyzing for how it is. That’s just my take, for what that’s worth.

    Apparently, more and more people are recording the show to watch after or watching online or on Ipads which Viacom is trying to take into account, I’m not sure if that’s just damage control or a legitimate thing.

    1. I agree!

    2. I disagree with the LGBT representation being ample, and they haven’t done a good job of it. If it was ample, we’d have more queer characters on the show, not just background characters who are barely given any thought and are only on the show as the token gay character (danny, who has been there since season 1 and knows about werewolves and could be given a bigger part in the show). A lesbian character wouldn’t have been brought back and made bisexual for the sake of keeping a main character from being queer. Also, queer-baiting with Stiles’ character, teasing about his possible bisexuality only for Dylan to reveal that those teases don’t mean anything at all. Good representation would be having a main character or important side character who is queer but whose sexuality isn’t the focus of their story. What Teen Wolf has is not good representation. It’s nothing more than a check list for Davis to wave around and say “Hey look at my show, it’s progressive!” when it’s really not.

       Also, it’s possible to progress the show and still remember the characters that used to be on it. It’s really not that difficult, but Davis has so many ideas he wants to do at once and would rather not focus on what happened in the past. All of the healing and stuff takes place during breaks between seasons.

       1. ” All of the healing and stuff takes place during breaks between seasons.”

          Except most of the between seasons consists of very little time. Time on Teen Wolf and real life is not parallel. Between 1 and 2? A few days. Between 2 and 3? A summer. Between 3A and 3B? A few weeks. Between 3B and 4? A couple of months. The entirety of TW has happened within the span of a year. There has been no time for anything. It’s just one thing happening right after another, and no time to breathe.

          A big part of the problem, besides Davis’ “ooh shiny” approach to everything and then discarding it after five minutes of play time, is that he has all these big ideas that need the span of a 24 episode season to do the arcs properly and fully develop characters (the plotlines in the series now take up way too much time or are overriden with deus ex machina subplots that end up flat), and he’s cramming them into 12 episodes, of which he spends way too much time with filler scenes and even filler episodes. He doesn’t know how to utilize his time and characters well. He’s not a tight writer, and neither are any of the others that write for this show, and you can tell they have no character/show bible at all that they can reference in regard to character background or information that’s already happened.

          This is his first really big endeavor that he’s had a lot of input on (yes, he created Criminal Minds, but he only wrote three episodes and was exec. producer on a handful before he left or was booted off it), and I think he’s both overwhelmed and has this major problem of “my show! mine!” clinging where he wants what he wants, even if it’s detrimental to the storyline and the show itself. I mean, he said it himself, that if people don’t like where the show is going or how it’s done, don’t watch. So people aren’t.

          1. I mean that’s what Davis has said, though. He’s said that he doesn’t take the time to show the characters healing or dealing with the past because the past is the past and the show must move forward, so he says it all happens off screen. And you’re right about his ideas and poor utilization of episodes.

    3. “Apparently, more and more people are recording the show to watch after or watching online or on Ipads which Viacom is trying to take into account, I’m not sure if that’s just damage control or a legitimate thing.”
       It’s 100% damage control and utterly bullshit.

       The thing is: these things ARE major points why people are not watching the show anymore. Doesn’t matter if you do not feel the same (which is completely fine), but a lot of people do. And the fandom has always been one of Teen Wolf’s strongest weapons. Fandom might not be recognized in the ratings per se, but Fandom brings new people to shows. Social Media is incredibly important for such a small show these days. And the Teen Wolf Fandom, especially the Sterek part of it, was more than willing to promote the show, to participate in polls that got them a free title page on the radio times…
       Loosing these people, the people who passionately love your product, is a stupid move. But if you’d ask me, it was a deliberate one. And I think it was a huge mistake.

       1. It is complete bullshit. Not sure if they are referencing DVRs or Online viewing so…

          DVRs are tied to Neilson.
          The ratings system is determined by how quickly you playback the show after recording. Better ratings for within a 24 hour period but it counts up to seven days after recorded. DVRs come with proprietary software to transfer the video to your desktop/laptop and I’m guessing that is also counted in the ratings so even if people transfer the files and convert them to mp4/m4v for their iPads, the numbers are still there.

          Since the DVR OEMs provide the metrics, I’m a little confused as to why Viacom wouldn’t be able to use them.

          As for watching online, is Viacom, a telecommunications & media company, actually saying they have no way to add views from their own site into their ratings? Wow. Like no web programmers/developers, data scientists or statisticians in their entire company who are competent? I just…

    4. Um, yeah, no. Representation isn’t ample on this show. It’s practically nonexistent and is swept under the rug until it needs to be brought out and waves around like a rainbow flag and them being all “look! look! representation!” Which is kind of the point, because if he didn’t do the “Look at us! Look at us! We’re representing!” people wouldn’t be so critical.

       And no, if you actually look around, you’ll find that there are a hell of a lot of people who don’t agree with your opinion.

       And considering there are shows with seasons even shorter than Teen Wolf’s who can have a spectrum of relationships dealing with various sexualities without making a big deal about them, and without prop failures and inconsistencies, and plotholes you could fly a jumbo jet through without disturbing the edges, yeah, people are going to point this stuff out and gripe about it.

       It is flat out lazy, bad writing, which anyone who has written significantly would know, and any non-lazy writer could tell you that. Why is Malia the way she is? He couldn’t be bothered to think of researching how she would be after being without human contact for eight years, and he just hopes fans will forgive it. Sorry, no. You can forgive him for his lazy writing style when he’s getting paid for it and continue shoving money into his pockets by watching. I’m not going to, and neither are a lot of people. *shrugs*

    5. “They’ve never hinted at Stiles being bi-sexual…”

       Let me share this Jeff Davis quote (source: interview with eonline 8/12): “We’ve certainly made some hints to the possibility of Stiles being bisexual.”

       1. A+ comment.

27. I think what happened is, even though the show airs on MTV, it actually attracted an older, wiser fanbase than it was expecting. (Or perhaps I do teenagers a disservice, and they are more discerning than I was at that age?) I think TW fans, in general, are okay with a little superficial gloss, but would be so very happy to have character development and emotional growth and continuity, which they’re not getting. Instead, it’s all smoke and mirrors, or, as you said – too much icing, not enough cake. 🙂 The show that comes on after, Wolf Watch? Where all they talk about is hook-ups and shirtless scenes? I think it’s indicative that they think that’s all the TW audience is interested in, and it’s just…not.

    Hence the lower ratings.

28. The only thing I disagree with is the Braeden thing.
    I don’t think her having a relationship with Derek takes ANYTHING from her character (and people who claim this should maybe sit down a little, because white women and women of color -especially black women- DO NOT HAVE THE SAME problems within representation. Us WoC struggle with not being depicted as desirable and worth of pursuing romantically, and black women struggle ENDLESSLY with the bullshit stereotype of ‘strong black women who don’t need no man’, which helps dehumanizing them), and seriously my only concern about this is whether she’ll wind up dead like Derek’s past three flames.

    1. Whoa, whoa, whoa, it’s not to say that Braeden’s character is made worse by her romantic obligations to Derek, it’s that Braeden’s story and now her development seems only to include Derek. Romance is fine, you can be independent and be in a relationship, all of that is awesome. The problem is the fact that Braeden’s scenes are mostly (if not all) Derek related and it’s the fact that her story (who she was before, why she’s here, what she would have been like even without Derek) isn’t being given the consideration it deserves.

       Tl;dr Romance is great but it shouldn’t be made a priority when character development is needed.

       And yes, i am a woc. And yes, i crave to see woc develop into complex characters not dictated by romance.

29. This article was a good starting point as to why so many people I know are upset with Teen Wolf. Aside from these things there is also the issue of consent. There is so much non-con in Teen Wolf that it almost seems like a fetish for the writers at this point. As a fan, as a woman, as a mother, I am not impressed. People who have open gaping wounds shouldn’t be having sex. People who are possessed and drugged out of their minds and in a mental ward shouldn’t be having sex. The fans who Teen Wolf unintentionally attracted, older fans, we know how wrong this stuff is. I have a huge problem with the idea that they are trying to attract fans who are 13-17 and have fans younger then that who think something like Jennifer/Derek and Derek being healed by the sex is romantic, not realizing that Julia, who was a full emissary (so Deton and Morells peer) in a love relationship with Kali when Derek was fifteen, using her knowledge of the Hale pack, to manipulate Derek into sex for power and control while using her Darach powers to screw with his mind is rape and not romantic at all. Being sexually harassed in a mental ward, also not romantic. The writers need to pull their heads out of their behinds and stop with all the non-con.

    1. This! All of this!

30. This article is everything and I love the way you addressed most of my major issues with Teen wolf.

    The biggest one being the show patting itself on the back for having progressive LGBT storylines. Now, I’ve been watching this show since it aired, and am still watching it (only to see if my faves are next on the chopping block. hah, I’ll get on that later), but I’ve never seen this so-called awesome representation? If they think Caitlin’s lesbian-turned-bisexual subplot, the maybe-yes-maybe-no implication of Kali/Julia(Jennifer)’s romantic ties, or Garrett’s everything are proper ways to represent the LGBTQ community then they’re just so, sooo wrong.

    They had really proper chances with Danny, but the fact that he’s just about as nonexistent as Stiles’ baited bisexuality this season proves that they’re all talk, no walk.

    I’m not even gonna go on how they stomped on, used and manipulated Sterek shippers when all they ask (well, most of them) is a good friendship slow built on genuine trust and care for each other. A tiny bit of kudos compared to what sterek shippers/thefandom has done for them, but lol no sterek can’t happen in ANY way or form so here’s two heterosexual relationships nobody asked for.

    1. (cont.)
       Add to that the consent issues, inconsistencies, plot holes the size of Canada and their overall mistreated of the characters, watching teenwolf became more of a task than something I enjoy doing on my free time. It came to a point that I only watch to see if my faves are next to die just so I could completely move on from the hot mess that the show has become.

       They need to listen to fans more, take articles like this into consideration and evaluate what exactly they’re doing wrong if they want their show to not get cancelled.

31. First, this article is spot on. For all the problems with the show, and those behind it, this article could have been much longer.

    The thing that baffles me the most regards LGBT representation and community relations. That MTV would risk burning the bridges it has spent 20 years cultivating with the LGBT community is jaw dropping. It is commonly understood that Davis has no control over how MTV promotes Teen Wolf. This means that the video shot back in 2012 on the TVGuide yacht in which Hoechlin and O’Brien paw at each other for several minutes in solicitation of votes for Teen Wolf in a competition was done at either the behest or acquiescence of MTV. It means that when Teen Wolf was in competition for the cover of TVGuide earlier this year, it was MTV that promised, through Tumblr, unseen footage of that video if Teen Wolf won the cover (It worked, by the way). This means that MTV is intentionally baiting it’s audience. The LGBT segment of Teen Wolf’s fan base has a particular interest in seeing representation on the show, and MTV willfully engaged in a marketing campaign which would affect the hopes and dreams of this group disproportionately.

    During season 3b, a scene aired in which Stiles was directly asked by a character named Katlyn (sp?) if he liked boys. Stiles did not answer the question. Within five seconds of airing, the scene was gif’ed out and posted to Teen Wolf’s official Tumblr with the caption, “DISCUSS.” MTV knew the reaction that scene would cause. The expectations, hopes and dreams of thousands who want substantive LGBT representation, and those who wished for bisexual representation specifically, seemed to be about to get their wish. MTV knew this and used the scene as bait anyway.

    It was O’Brien himself that crushed those dreams in an interview several weeks later. Yet he’s not at fault, Davis is for signing off on the scene and MTV for using it as bait. It is shameful and shocking coming from a company that has long been a champion, if not pioneer, for LGBT inclusion. In many ways, MTV has contributed significantly to the increased visibility of a minority who longed for a space to hear their own voices, to see their own lives reflected. Danny never fit that bill properly and it is unlikely that Mason will either.

    And now they are pulling stunts like this? I am truly dismayed.

    And so, my message is simple. I can no longer support MTV in any way.

    As for Davis, as a gay man, I am ashamed to call him brother. Limiting Danny to tokenism was bad enough, but signing off on the scene between Stiles and Katlyn was low. So, as much as I would like to continue to support certain members of the cast, I cannot in good conscience support him or anything he does until he does right by his own people.

    And to the Sterek fan base, I would pose a question: Do you really want this man’s hands anywhere near Sterek? It seems to me that he isn’t capable of meeting even the slimmest of expectations given his ham-handed handling of what passes for romance in Teen Wolf.

    In conclusion, neither Davis nor MTV is selling what we are looking for. This show is a crime serial set in a supernatural world with a werewolf pack as the cops. It’s the only thing Davis has demonstrated an passable ability to write. If that is all you need, then carry on. If you’re looking for depth, you will not find it in Teen Wolf.

    So much wasted potential.

    1. Thank you for bringing up the MTV betrayal of its audience. As someone born in the early 80s, I remember MTV spending most of the 90s really pushing the boundaries of what could be talked about on TV regarding sex and sexuality. My classmates and I used to watch Loveline and The Real World (etc) with wide eyes and it really influenced a lot about what we knew of America and growing up. The fact that MTV would turn around and stop taking non-heterosexuals at least somewhat seriously is horrifying, and speaks to the fact that the mentality of the network execs who are trying to reach an audience of teens should be brought to light for NOT exploring the ramifications of the relationship storylines they’re either approving or outright pushing. Statutory rape of minors (Kate and Derek), sex between characters in extreme mental states (Stiles and Malia), partner abuse and manipulation (Derek with anyone before Braeden), these are all things that are huge issues and they just keep sweeping them away with shirtless scenes and make outs. I don’t think the fact that the fans beyond the teenage years are complaining about these issues are a coincidence – the people who have life experience beyond what you could expect of the average 13-to-17-year-old are seriously skeeved by how lightly (or non-existently) the show treats the very subjects they write into the plots.

       I stopped watching regularly after season 2, because 3A was so disappointing. I picked up basic info about 3B from Tumblr and reading recaps, but for season 4 I know very little because what I do read/hear makes me gag. I’d rather use my free time to watch shows that reward the viewer for watching and paying attention. However, based on perusing the official Facebook page for the show posts something, if 95% of those commenters are the fans they’re courting, take ’em. People whose response to everything is “(actor), come here and (sex act) me!” or who seem barely literate whether from age, education, or choice – these people aren’t usually watching the same shows I’m watching, so clearly I’m in the wrong with my choice to have followed what I thought was a character-driven, campy, and enjoyable take on teen angst and relationships combined with supernatural crime solving.

       I don’t watch crime procedurals with episodic storylines because I like following long plots out to their big-impact ending/reward, and while I love a good plot twist, I prefer to have had some build up to the reveal, rather than wondering if I missed a few episodes that set up the story the writers seem to think I was watching. I think “Game of Thrones” proves you can try to be sexy and edgy but still have a coherent narrative with both characters you care about AND a plot that has natural buildup throughout the season. I get that GoT has a MUCH bigger budget and an existing narrative to draw from, but hell, “Saved by the Bell” had more consistency and better character storylines than Teen Wolf, even when they had to do with Kelly Kapowski’s pimple.

       1. Glad I am not the only one old enough to remember how MTV used to operate. When I think of networks likely to push the envelope of social norms, MTV sat at the top of the list until this happened.

          It is not OK to define the homosexuals on your show by their sexuality, then pat yourself on the back and call it progressive. Not all visibility is quality visibility. In a world where young LGBT people are still reduced to their sexuality, MTV and Jeff Davis are perpetuating a different sort of stereotype bound up in heternormative perceptions about LGBT people. There are people who have known me for years who think of me as gay before anything else.

          So the tokenism is not helpful (possibly doing more harm than good), while the baiting is just plain wrong. By the way, the gay tokenism in TW should be seen as a form of baiting because, you know, it is. The thing that gets me is that they all know it.

32. Sorry, but when I see fans trying to justify what Jeff Davis is doing with TW plot I really cant take them seriously. First it’s JD and TW writers job to make a consistent plot, it is not a fan job. They are being paid, we are giving them audience, they need sit down and take what their fans need and say seriously. Not act like spoiled kids when fandom don’t show any interest in their new characters or they lazy writing.

    There are Fan works (fanfics) better written than the show. It’s funny and sad in the same time see that fans can make a better job and for free than JD and co. that are being paid.

    1. I agree. This is why as much as I enjoy reading metas, recently I find myself not really paying as much attention to them. I can’t help but compare them with what I’m actually seeing on screen and most times it leaves me feeling either underwhelmed or confused.

       Like you said, it’s the writers’ job, not the fans’, to make their stories work. We don’t need to knack our brains just so their plot would make sense, or stretch what happened onscreen just so it’ll have a tiny bit of substance, we shouldn’t have to.

33. Admittedly, I jumped into the TW fandom from the SPN fandom, mostly because I was pissed off about queerbaiting, women dying/used as plot devices/dub-con scenes and the non-existant exploration of Dean’s sexual fluidity. I had lots of hope with TW. The representation of women is pretty great. I LOVE Lydia and I’m glad she’s currently not romantically attached and can discover her powers. As for Kira,a non-white female kitsune? Awesome. I had super high hopes that TW would explore Stiles’ sexuality, especially after TPTB hinted at his bisexuality. And the whole ship thing? I’m totally in. Needless to say, I’m disappointed. I’ll stick it out and keep watching though, because I love Lydia and want to know more about her. Who knows? Maybe TW will become a great show with kickass LGBT representation, but it could also become a horrifying nightmare where “questions that make them uncomfortable” are completely banned from conventions and you get booed out the door for trying.

    1. Something similar is already happening in the fandom, it seems. Now, I would take these instances with a grain of salt because they’re mostly fan accounts, but at Alpha Con in Vienna, I believe it was, according to some of the fans who attended, any kind of question involving Stiles and Derek was banned. At another con, Tyler Hoechlin had to decline signing a sterek fanwork someone had brought to the signing, saying he wasn’t allowed to sign any Sterek works. Again, I’m not sure how true either of those are, but it’s something to think about.

       There were also a couple of other cons that aren’t allowing any non-canon (non-canon ships mainly) fanworks to be signed, or something along those lines. I think one of the cons banned fanart in general at one point, telling con goers that there was fanart they could buy to get signed there at the con. I haven’t been keeping updated on the situation, but that was something I’d come across a couple of months ago.

       1. I’ve heard about theses conventions report too and Eaddy Mays (who plays Victoria Argent) even wrote something about it. I think TW wasn’t hoping that the fandom that S1 and S2 attracted would be so vocal. I think they were hoping newer fans would be attracted as well, but that didn’t happen and the fans who stuck around (Sterek fans as well as others) are leaving because of how TPTB/PR have changed especially since S4 started

          1. I think a lot of it has to do with them not anticipating fans being upset and fed up with the way the PR acts. JD liked the attention it brought to the show, liked the new fans it brought. He wasn’t expecting it to backfire on him. It made the show bigger, and the problem was all the baiting, like baiting Sterek fans with the possibility that Sterek could become canon romantically, and also baiting fans with the possibility of Stiles being bisexual.

34. I agree with your artical, but I noticed how you talked about the Sterek ship but you never talked about anything involving other ships. I see what you mean by the LGBT thing, but I mean shows don’t have to show LGBT representation. Danny and Ethan were in there, Ethan was a pretty big character is season 3, just because Stiles isn’t gay or bisexual doesn’t mean the show is reflecting a negative light on that sexuality. And people said that the teased about Stiles being bisexual in season 1-3a or something, I know he made those comments in the first couple episodes but I have straight guy friends who do that all the time. I’m just stating, I do ship Sterek, but I know it will not happen because the characters weren’t developed that way or into a romantic way.

    Besides that, I am also a Stydia shipper, (Stydia is from a more realistic standpoint, this ship is more possible than Sterek, not to be rude just the way the characters are) and has anyone thought about Stydia shippers, what this Malia thing is to us, we spent season 1-3b shipping Stydia and thinking it was going to happen because of the way the characters were growing and coming together, you could see Stiles and Lydia’s relationship developing into more than a friendship and Lydia’s protective mask she wore to hide her emotions and dated captain of the lacrosse team type thing, breaking, and the kiss is proof because after she looked so weak, like she had just come undone. After that us Stydia shippers really thought we were finally getting our ship.
    But then this Malia storyline came in, so suddenly too, Stiles isn’t a ladies man at all, he stuttered around girl an barely knew how to properly flirt, but then he knows this girl for literally half an episode to and episode ( he only knew ABOUT her before ) and he is having sex with her in a mental hospital? It was so unexpected and out of character. I understand he was possessed or whatever, but that doesn’t mean that changed him into a ladies man, or should make him less fidgety when about to have sex. Malia’s character was so sudden and it felt so forced, if Stiles and Malia’s relationship as friends or aquaintances had time to develope I feel like they would be a much more entertaining couple but right now watching season 4 I can’t help but feel like there are so many missing things in their relationship like as in we haven’t gotten and chance to see the reason they like Eachother or anything like that, as far as we know they don’t even have anything in common other than they had sex in a mental institute in which they were both temporarily staying in.

    1. The show doesn’t need to have LGBT representation, but it has tried and it has tried very poorly for any representation. They baited us with the possibility of Stiles being bisexual. It wasn’t just a couple of lines said in season 1. Davis has even said this himself, that they’ve dropped hints about him being bisexual, and I’m pretty sure he even said at a con once that the topic of Stiles’ possible bisexuality was spoiler territory. Then Dylan says in an interview a few months ago that those hints don’t mean anything at all, that the scene between Stiles and Caitlin actually meant nothing at all. So yes, it is a problem.

       Stydia wasn’t mentioned because while your ship is just not becoming canon anymore, your fandom wasn’t mistreated like the Sterek fandom was. Re-read that part of the article again, and you’ll see what I mean. Sterek shippers aren’t angry that the ship isn’t canon (we may be a bit unhappy and resigned to it, most of us at least), we’re angry that the PR keeps using us to gain popularity, then they shun us and treat us like dirt because of what we ship. This isn’t about being angry over what ship is canon and what ship isn’t, it’s about being angry over being mistreated because of what you ship.

    2. The problem is that Jeff, the cast, and the PR have lauded Teen Wolf as this progressive, LGBT-friendly show without actually following through with it. Danny and Ethan would have been fantastic if they actually had screen time and we got to learn more about their characters and see relationship development between them. But none of that happened. All of the so-called representation in Teen Wolf has been tokenism at best and queer-baiting (Stiles’ sexuality) at worst.

       I would disagree with Lena, however, about how the Stydia fandom has been treated. While they haven’t been ostracized the same way the Sterek fandom has, Stydia fans were definitely led on and let down, and I feel for them. Jeff and the cast kept saying how Stydia fans would be happy and that there would be more buildup between them, and then everyone was blindsided with Stalia, which had exactly 0 development. And then Jeff wrote a two month time-skip so that once again, we saw no natural progression in Stiles’ and Malia’s relationship. Do I personally ship Stydia romantically? Not really. I love their friendship, but that’s about it. But I would take Stydia a million times before I will ever accept Stalia. At least we actually saw relationship development between Stiles and Lydia. #ButThatsNoneOfMyBusiness

35. I think the plan for Teen Wolf was for them to have gotten rid of all the older fans, Sterek fans, and more questioning fans before the 4th season began. I also think they thought they would get an influx of new viewers since Dylan’s movie The Maze Runner was originally supposed to be released in February, before s4 aired.

    The whole ‘Sterek is taboo’ and ‘ignoring fandom completely’ strategy started when Maze Runner still had that February release date. But, unfortunately for TW PR, The Maze Runner release changed to September… after s4. So all those new younger viewers the show hoped they’d have gained to make up for the viewers and fans they’d gotten rid of — never turned up.

    I guess they’re just hoping now to coast along on the decreased ratings of s4 and hoping s5 gets a bump from any new Dylan fans if Maze Runner does well.

    1. You know what MIKE, what you said does make sense…who knows maybe TW PR would be happy to let go of the Sterek shippers or the ones who are quite enthusiastic about the show and hope newer fans (who are happy with what they serve on the show) show up cos of The Maze Runner or the fact that the show has been on air for four years

       1. Yeah, I don’t think MTV PR has ever had any idea how to handle the fandom that Teen Wolf attracted. I think they were expecting a younger Bieber-type fandom or just the younger demographic that other MTV shows attract. They treat the show like it has content and an audience similar to Jersey Shore or Teen Mom. I remember during 3b in the Japanese POW camp scene, TW twitter was making the most atrocious ‘humorous’ comments while it was airing. That was the last time I’ve even looked at the official twitter.

          With the release of the Maze Runner, MTV PR were probably hoping they could gain the audience demographic they always wanted for the show without being apologetic for pushing the longtime fans to the side. It’s backfired a little right now but it doesn’t appear that the official PR has changed course.

36. Okay, I’m not saying that they shouldn’t not promote LGBT characters on the show, but that’s not what the show is about! It’s about werewolves and supernatural creatures. And I know that Danny has been “in the dark”, for most of Season 4, but Jeff said that you haven’t seen the last of Danny yet.
    I do agree with the fact that they do repeat a lot of the same story lines. Sure, they’re different stories each season but the story lines are getting very repetitive… But I do think that they should have had some sort of memorial for Allison and Aiden! Oh, and we do need some answers from Jeff. It does get very confusing sometimes…

    1. While the show isn’t about LGBT representation, people point it out as a problem because most interviews about Teen Wolf have Jeff and the cast speaking about how amazing their LGBTQ representation is. That’s why it’s an issue.

       In regards to Danny, it’s only rumor, but apparently we were supposed to have seen the last of Danny, but fan backlash has forced Jeff to bring him back. I’m not sure how true that is, but Holland said at the last con she was at that Danny’s storyline had been over, and Keahu has always been pretty vocal about how much Danny’s been pushed to the side.

       1. Umm SKYLAR the show isn’t about straight characters hooking up every other second either…which happens a lot on the show 🙂

          And besides like MIKE said, i’m okay with TW not being about LGBT representation…the thing that gets to fans is the fact the cast (namely Tyler Posey) going around saying what an impact the show is making when it comes to LGBT shows on TV…that’s what some fans don’t like and stopped watching

          As for Danny, i have a feeling Jeff said he will be bringing Danny back cos of fan backlash, a thing he did with Brae when fandom talked about him killing in 3A premiere…it’s evident she’s back (even though Jeff didn’t want her) cos her ‘alpha slash scars’ haven’t been explained and looking at her in S4 she hasn’t really done much

    2. Those who defend the lackluster portrayal of LGBT characters in Teen Wolf often say things like, “The show isn’t about LGBT representation!” or “Not every show has represent gay people.”

       Substitute the word Black, Asian, or Woman/Women for gay or LGBT in the above phrases and let us know how it tastes in your mouth. The thing is that if a storyteller intends to include a character identified with a given group, then that character should be an accurate reflection of that group. It shouldn’t be reduced to a token or a stereotype or a combination of the two. If a storyteller limits that character to a stereotype or relegates that character to the background, then the character’s existence is probably designed to get attention and nothing else. The author is saying, “Look, I have this type of character! Come check it out!”

       When evaluating a character’s value in a narrative, we must ask “What does this character bring to the table? In what way is the story enhanced by this character’s existence?” One way to evaluate the strength, meaning, and purpose of a character is to ask “Can this story be told without this character?” In regard to the character of Danny, the answer is yes. Danny is not essential to the narrative of Teen Wolf. He is therefore a token and the strength of his characterization is weak. That his character is one dimensional is proof of this. He only existed to walk into a scene specifically written to point out his gayness, then exit the scene.

       This kind of storytelling is often called pandering, because, you know, it is. Pandering is a gimmick. Gimmicks are used in creative works to generate interest, especially bad creative works. The author is saying that they have so little confidence in the strength of their work that they need to deploy tricks to sell their product.

       Posey has praised the show’s inclusion of LGBT characters on numerous occasions, even claiming that said representation has “almost saved lives.” Don’t worry, I did a double-take as well. How does “almost” saving a life count as something good? He recently included “being gay” in a list of things that the show is about. There is nothing in Teen Wolf that could be considered even a glossing over of what it is like to be gay.

       A story set within a contemporary framework must be socially conscious if it is to be relevant. That is, if the story is to resonate – to connect with its target audience – then it must be a reflection of the daily experiences of that audience. Homosexuality and associated issues is imminently relevant in our society. To ignore it is irresponsible, to reduce it to a punch line is reprehensible, and to cast it to the background is backward. For all that TW is praised for its progressiveness, it is only a facade. Not only for its treatment of the LGBT community, but for its portrayals of women and people of color. Lydia stripped of her strength and confidence, reduced to mewling damsel in distress. Braeden’s potential was snuffed in favor of hitching her to Derek, her only narrative function now to advance his arc. His story could have been advanced in any number of ways, but the writers chose to take a strong female character with tremendous potential and subordinate her to Derek. Why? Because sex sells and gender norms still govern our society. And that brings us back to Danny, who is entirely constructed as a sexual being. No substance.

       The rules for television are not the same as those for movies or books, which are snapshots taken at particular moments in time within a particular society and presenting a particular point of view. Television shows are ongoing and must deal with socially relevant subject matter if it is to endure. It must reflect the experiences of mothers, fathers, teenagers, sons, daughters, students, men, women, African Americans, and other people of color. LGBT representation is a part of that, too.

37. Let it be put on the record that Dylan O’Brien confirmed that Malia and Stiles didn’t have sex in Eichen House. It was apparently his decision? Anyway, it helps me sleep at night and I hope it helps you too.

    1. What Dylan actually said was that Jeff wanted to film a full on sex scene and Dylan said no. Instead we got the make out fade to black scene, but yeah they did have sex.

       1. I’m with S on this one…the screen faded to black but it was quite evident (how the scene played) that those two had sex…the fact that Jeff is willing to add in such scenes in an episode about mental health just cos he wanted Stiles to share a ‘bond’ with Malia is what scares me…and regardless of what Dylan said etc, if you read the episode review or recaps on other sites, all of them mentioned Stiles having sex with Malia (who is apparently 13 years old)…if other reviewers saw a sex scene, you can be sure a lot of casual viewers must’ve seen it too

          1. I agree that in 3b, it was implied that Stiles and Malia slept together. But does anyone else get the feeling that like so many other things in Teen Wolf, the writers have retconned that?

             They’re very careful never to make it clear Stiles and Malia are having sex. And every time they flashback to the Eichen House scene in the ‘previously on’ they only show the first kiss line.

             Is it possible because of the visceral negative reaction to that scene last year, the writers are pretending it didn’t happen? They change so much of canon, I wouldn’t be surprised.

    2. What S said is right and Shelley confirmed it in one of the interviews at SDCC that Stiles and Malia had sex in the Echo House ep.

38. There is nothing about S4 I like and it’s unfortunate because I was looking forward to it.

39. Definitely agree. There’s just way too much underusage or OVER usage of certain characters. Derek has become a proverbial punching bag for all the angst and misery. Stiles/Dylan had a fantastic run during 3b but S4 has dropped the ball on addressing serious PTSD issues. They basically said, “Yeah you killed a bunch of people but here’s a girlfriend for you (a Derek proxy for all you angry Sterek shippers)!”. Liam is bland as bland can be and just sort of appears on screen. The fact that they used his best friend to replace Danny (another PoC gay man) is frankly insulting. Malia, Kira, and Brae area all fantastic female characters!… If they were given a chance to be more than accessories to the male characters’ growth. Malia is adorable and wild but definitely still has that stunted mentality–she shouldn’t be in jumping straight into high school and relationships. And Kira, despite being a “badass katana-wielding kitsune” always gets knocked unconscious or unable to be of real use. Lydia is doing alright so far with exploring her powers. But really, this show has dropped the ball on continuity, empathy, and logic. S3 began murky and muddled and it has only slipped since then. Davis has a very horrible problem of introducing too many new characters and bad guys that it takes away from delivering a strong narrative. Then again, this turn of events is ultimately a marketing ploy to lose the old demographic (the fandom that was intense, passionate, on the ball, and creative) and bring in a more ignorant mass that will “go with the flow”, no matter how foul the flow gets. There was some part of the Sterek fandom that caused a lot of drama (okay a lot) for the production team and actors/actresses. As a former Sterek shipper I was ashamed. But that still doesn’t give the creators and Davis the write to promise all these things and refuse to deliver. It was shady and they won’t be forgiven anytime soon I imagine.

40. Why??? I believe you already said it all.
    Started watching season 1 without expectations, was completely in love on season 2, started losing interest on season 3 and stopped watching on season 4…

41. I don’t think decreased ratings have much or anything to do with ignoring Sterek. 3B had the highest ratings of any TW season while featuring no Stiles and Derek interactions whatsoever (aside from one tiny dream sequence). We could flip this question around and ask what made 3B more popular than 4? Maybe the real problem comes from putting Dylan O’Brien back in the sidekick role when it was more thrilling to see him at the center of the storyline?

    The LGBT representation was never especially good on TW, so I don’t know why anyone would watch for that reason alone. There’s far better queer characters than Danny out there on other shows and there has been for a long while. Though another thing that may have hurt the ratings is the loss of Allison and the Scott/Allison romance which was such a big deal in early seasons.

42. Separate to my last comment, I just wanted to say that the main thing that keeps me invested in Teen Wolf (and the thing that got me invested from the start) is its portrayal of a deeply caring, loyal and mutually supportive relationship between two boys. That is, the main relationship of the show, Scott & Stiles. It’s a shame TW fandom is so fixated on its romantic pairings or pairings they want to be romantic, because IMO this consistent central friendship of the show is a beautiful love story in its own right and one that seems so under-appreciated. Still it can’t be said that TW focuses solely on its het ships. Scott & Stiles relationship has always been the core interaction of the show.

43. OK i disagree with everything u said, the fandom only makes up like 2% of people who watch teen wolf i mean come on all the people on tumblr in the so called FANDOM , when u take it into account of viewership ratings , doesn’t compare at all to the general audience who just watches the show when its on TV and doesn’t know anything about fandom or tumblr. So remove that reason for your post.

    Second you brought up shipping are u kidding me? general audiences of TV show dont even know what shipping is and they also wouldn’t care , this is only again a small portion of the viewers who also are in the fandom and active on tumblr , the general audience makes up at least 97% of a TV show .So remove that from your post as well.

    Seems to me like a person in the TW fandom the OP , of the article wrote this because he is in the TW fandom… talk about biast.

    Next, sterek? are you nuts , you actually think it lost viewers cause of sterek, i can tell you right now of the 1.5million + people each week who watch teen wolf , only 0.5% of them would even know what sterek is.If you went up to a general viewer of teen wolf sho just watched it every week which is like i said at least 97% of teenwolds viewers or more , And said hey sterek , first they would say what? then u tell them what it is and they would be like “thats kinda of messed up”.
    So you need to remove that as well.

    NO LGBT representation? Hold up are we watching a supernatural show about werewolves , and supernatural creatures or are we watching a drama about LGBT people? i mean look come on thats not why everyone watches teen wolf each week again you’re grasping at straws here.Some people it may be why they watch but then again that is a very small minority because there are allot of better shows that cater towards representing LGBT people in a environment more suited to that happening that in a supernatural universe.
    (All the reasons above addressed here are not valid points)
    Cause when its said and done the viewership loss because of them wouldn’t even make a tiny dent.Cause they are very small groups of people who watch for that reason.

    Once you remove all of those reasons ,

    You’re left with too much teen wolf Now this makes sense they had a 24 episode season 3 split into 2 parts with a short turn around in between each then a short turn around till season 4 now this make sense , as the gaps between season 1, 2, 3 were nearly year if show has a short turn around between each season it will leak viewers.

    On the repetitive thing. I dont think you know all that much about TV , im afraid , any show that is in its 4th season , going into its 5th season , would feel repetitive , cause its what 60-70+ episodes been on the air for 4 years it will no longer feel fresh. This happened to every show , Thus that reason needs to be removed as well.There is literally hundreds of shows that after been on the air for multiple seasons feel repetitive.

    I actually think TBH you are one of those people in the TW fandom online on tumblr doing whatever u people do. I am just a general viewer who watches the show , i dont care about any of the BS that goes on online or the fandom or w/e or stupid shipping you people do its kind of makes me sad TBH, Cause you pay more attention to things that honestly are just stupid.

    1. I never mentioned that all the above things could account for the loss in viewers…i just mentioned a few things that could’ve played a role, could be all or just one…like at least you agreed with the ‘Too much Teen Wolf’ thing so that’s good 🙂

       1. Thats really the only thing that makes sense tbh …. of what you said ..there was only a 3-4 month turn around from end of 3b to season 4 it was to short. And allot of the actor`s left the show not cause the the writers just wrote them of , it`s because they wanted to leave to try other things. You didn’t mention that you just mention ” oh they bring in new characters people get mad and get rid of old ones’ Cause thats not at all what happened.Crystal reed allison wanted to leave , the twins got a new show and had to leave they even want to stick around for maybe 6 episodes but it couldn’t happen contractually. Same for isaac/daniel charman. He got a role on another show and it was not possible for him to do both , Same for cora , the actress got the lead on another tv show . You should really mention these things cause u make it sound like the writers just wrote them all of got rid of them cause they wanted to to bring in all new characters. And that is not what happened at all.That really irritates me if your gonna say stuff like that make sure you check all the facts first , And make sure they are included in an article you post.This was not the TPTB or the people at MTV or anyones fault it wasn’t the actors/actresses decisions themselves , So to blame them for that is absolutely ridiculous.

          1. Correction it was the actors/actress decision,TYPO, just to clarify 🙂 le spelling mistake.

          2. i know why Crystal and others left…but looking at it as a casual viewer (like my family and friends) they really didn’t care or search the net for the reason…to them Crystal died and Isaac left by the end of 3B…the same for Erica, Boyd etc, a commentor ORION (who’s below) mentioned such a thing about characters leaving/dying etc in his comment

             the characters who leave aren’t given proper treatment either…Issac is just gone, so is Danny, Erica and Boyd never to be mentioned again, for a casual viewer…all they are seeing is old characters they are invested in leaving and new ones coming in, something that Glee did and i think that might have played a role in some viewers not watching…i remember not watching Heroes when Ali Larter’s multiple identity character left…Ali the actress was still in it but i stopped watching cos her character died

             i think everyone here know crytal left, same with the twins and Daniel…so i wrote that line coming from a casual view mindset cos the whole fandom knows when and why the actors left

             1. Yes but , this is the problem. MTV dont allow them enough time each episode to address the things like old characters dying or that left.There isn’t enough time for them to address it.Jeff davis stated this in a interview they need more time each episode.And those things would be addressed.

                1. that’s why i mentioned The powers that be (TPTB) more in the article cos there’s a high chance they don’t let Jeff talk about such things…i know there are fans who say 12 episodes a season isn’t enough to address issues properly but then we have shows like Penny Dreadful, In the Flesh, Shameless and even cartoon shows like ‘The Legend of Korra’ that are more than capable of telling a satisfying story in 12 episodes (and 3 in S1 and 6 in S2 for In the Flesh)

                   So it’s either TPTB’s fault or Jeff’s or both, who knows, but i feel that not addressing these things does feel weird to some fans who have grown invested in the characters and want some sort of closure

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    3. “OK i disagree with everything u said, the fandom only makes up like 2% of people who watch teen wolf”

       Hooooo. And where did you get this number from? Who made the statistics? Any Source?

44. There is never just one reason people turn away from a show. I think this article sums up some of the bigger reasons well enough.

    None of my friends watch the show anymore. We were talking about it at a party last weekend and most say that “it’s not the same” or “it’s too different.” I complained about the plot holes and they all seemed to agree it was a big factor saying that’s why the show is so confusing. We lamented the loss of Allison, Danny, Isaac, Boyd, Erica, and even Victoria Argent. Most agreed that the return of Kate was a gimmick that none of us liked.

    So what I think should be added to the list here is the alienation of audience. All these new characters meant to replace the characters that we were first invited to get to know. The change is radical and happened too fast. I just don’t care about these new people; and of them, Malia makes the least sense.

    As for me, I only gave the show a chance because of my fascination with all things werewolf (allegory is the best). The first season was surprisingly good, if a bit hokey at times. From season two on, I didn’t really watch it so much as sit with my tablet or phone in front of the TV, looking up whenever I heard Derek or Stiles speak. Derek was the most compelling character on the show and Dylan’s talent made it easy to connect with the character of Stiles.

    While I appreciate the central story of friendship between Scott and Stiles, it falls flat because Posey is a sub par actor who lacks the charisma to sell the role. And even if he could, the character of Scott bores me. He’s a geek who got superpowers. Having read Shazam as a child, well… been there done that. The Romeo and Juliet trope is also boring and that was Scott and Allison.

    From the pool scene with Derek and Stiles, it seemed clear that they were going to become the best of friends eventually — a predictable trope using ancient archetypes. That did interest me and became the only reason to watch because the other characters that had potential were killed off pretty quickly.

    Eventually, the plot holes and just about everything else listed in this article overcame my desire to watch, together with the elimination of all interaction between the two characters that I most wanted to see grow and change. Not seeing Derek deal with his issues. Not seeing Stiles deal with the aftermath of the Nogitsune. That they cut down the scene between Derek and his mother last season really irked me. And this season, his sudden shift in his behavior is jarring and unbelievable.

    Anyway. My 2 cents.

    1. The actors who died/left weren’t just killed of or written off they wanted to leave the show for other things and the writers were forced to write there characters off.

       1. I am aware of this. Doesn’t change the outcome. What you need to ask yourself is why they wanted to leave the show. Reed was pretty clear saying she “didn’t have anything left to give to the character.” Which was her way of saying nicely that the character had stagnated and was not challenging her as an actor.

          Sharman left for the same reasons, which he stated at Alpha Con. He wanted explore Isaac’s character. He knew that was going to happen, you see.

          Sinqua (Boyd) did not want to leave. In fact, he didn’t even know he was being killed until he got the script. Neither did Jill Wagner (Kate) back in season one, by the way. So your statement isn’t entirely accurate.

          Still, the reasons these characters are no longer on the show do not matter to the casual viewer. The result is the same.

          1. Where do you get this stuff.. At alpha con daniel sharman stated ” it was not contractually possible due to him getting other jobs etc”. And that u may see isaac again one day most likely in season 5 as jeff davis said it is a possibility.

             1. You must learn to read between the lines. Learn to discern the difference between spin and truth. Learn to understand when someone slips up and has to walk back that slip.

                You’re not asking the right questions regarding why these actors left. Sharman had a minor role, so it’s no surprise that he would want to leave for something bigger. But his remark that he wanted to explore the character he played, knowing that wouldn’t happen, underscores the shows lack of depth. And that really is what lay at the heart of this shows problems. There wouldn’t be contractual problems if Sharman hadn’t gotten a better job in the first place.

                And that feeds into why Reed left. Stagnant characterizations.

45. Not to mention teen wolf is still the highest rated scripted show on MTV and the ratings are well above any level that would make cause or concern. So TBH i dont even know why u posted this article the ratings are on par basically with season 1 and season 2, And season 1 and season 2 has lower rated episodes than episodes in season 4.

    Not to mention also allot of people are watching teen wolf on their mobiles , so when mobile ratings are taking into account for the 2014-2015 season teen wolf is gonna see a big jump in ratings cause its been reported teen wolf has a massive amount of viewers on mobile.

    1. Teen Wolf is not getting cancelled. That is not what this article is about. In fact, it has already been renewed for a two part season five. What is telling is that the number of episodes ordered has been lowered to 10 per part. That’s four less than season three.

       Another thing that has to be considered is that the overall ratings mean very little to advertisers. What they look at are the sweet spot demographic of 18 to 45. TW ratings for this age group have dropped significantly from .9 to .7. If you look at the demographic breakdown in ratings you will see that the bulk of TW viewers fall into the 12 to 16 range. Teenagers don’t have money generally and are thus less appealing to advertisers.

       Mobile ratings may be high, but that platform has not been readily embraced by the sweet spot demographic. We like to watch our programs on bigger screens, like we did growing up. Change is hard sometimes.

       In the end, none of this chatter about the shows decline in ratings matters for the future of the show. Season five will be the last season. Jeff only ever wanted five seasons. The actors are ready to move on — Dylan’s career is about to take off, Holland seems so done with the show most of the time, actors leaving left and right, Hoechlin could be out this season since Jeff shunted his story off to another writer. Plus, Dylan let slip that it was the last season in an interview during SDCC when talking about season five he suggested a certain story element would be a great way to end it (the show). Which could mean that it’s just him leaving at the end of five, but without him, there is no show. We all know that.

       1. Ok this is going to be fun.( Im going to tear your post apart you should really do your research)

          Everything you posted is completely wrong and incorrect for one.

          First of , the reason there is 2 part 10 episodes instead of 12 , Is the time it takes to shoot 24 episodes is too much( they stated it was very hard to get 24 episodes done in the amount of time they had) as in the turn around they barely got it done its is too much work and not enough time..Jeff stated 10 episodes split into two part season 20 total will allow them more time to complete them again it is a matter of TIME.Has nothing to do with the ratings.

          MTV never has and never will care about the 18-34 demographics.( Jeff Davis stated this)
          They only care about the 12-16. Teen Wolf is a cable show , Viacom who owns MTV says is there isn’t enough stuff out there atm to support their general audience which is 12-16 , And that the inclusion of mobile ratings based on their research is that a LARGE number of people watch on the mobile , and fall into 12-16 demo which is all they care about.And it will also boost the total viewership and 18-34 a little.

          jeff davis has stated this numerous times just so you understand. MTV only cares about 12-16 dem. And also mobile ratings will be taking into account by nielsen in the 2014-2015 overnight ratings and be included in the ratings for the show And teen wolf has a rather large number of viewers on mobile.Again they won’t be separate they will be included in overnight ratings which will boost viewership and the ratings in 12-16 demo which is all MTV cares about.

          And second TW is a cable show , They dont get the majority of their money from advertisers and it doesn’t play as a big part as network television.The majoprity of income is from cable subscriptions.( Again do your research).

          Dylan obrien did not say ” it was the last season” As i watched the interview again he said”it could be the last season” and if it is he wanted it to be done right he didn’t mention a certain story element.Also dylan obrien would never leave the show… Even if the maze runner did well. SO your statement is just all pure speculation , I hate people who post things that are wrong thinking they are right.

          In the future when you post something make sure all your facts are correct. As they were not. Makes you look stupid.

          1. MOSSEN can you like not use words that might come across as hurtful or rude like ‘stupid’ etc…and it goes against our comment posting guidelines…thank you!

             Other than that you have brought up good points other readers will enjoy reading

             1. OKay , it is just irritating when people post stuff and it is incorrect.

                1. You said something that was incorrect with regard to why characters were killed off. I didn’t attack you for it, did I?

                   The story they are giving us about why there are fewer episodes for season five feels like spin. If the show were that big of a commodity, then it would get 24. Did you know that short seasons is a recent development in TV? It makes very little sense that after years of TV where seasons ran so long that it is suddenly a problem. I really never have understood that change. I’m sure there is a perfectly logical reason, but time management seems lame given the history of television. I can see it for shows like Walking Dead, where location shooting could cause problems along with the logistics associated with the nature of the show. But TW is largely shot on a lot. I don’t know everything, but it’s damned odd.

                   Historically, a popular show suddenly getting fewer orders for episodes usually heralds the end of that show as it signals that the company is unwilling to invest too much money in production for fear of not getting a return. MTV does seem to be scrambling to get the numbers up. I hear they are airing episode 10 on Sunday before the VMA’s. Doesn’t sound like they are happy with the numbers. Seems like they are worried.

                   We will find out soon enough.

                   1. i’m interested in knowing why they decided to air episode 10 (the ep right after the Banafactor reveal) just before the VMA’s as well…hasn’t happened before…after airing it on Sunday they will be airing it on normal Monday time as well…maybe trying to attract some new fans or just increasing their numbers for ep 10 if people tune in before the VMA which do rake a lot in ratings, like 9-10 million plus

                      1. Fangirlish reports that TW episode 10 has been shifted to before VMA’s due to Emmy Awards being on opposite TW in it’s regular slot. So, yeah. Still worried about ratings.

                         Incidentally, episode 9 scored a 1.48. Lowest rating this season and lowest since season two.

                         1. If MTV is only concerned about 12-16 ratings then that shift shouldn’t have occurred cos i don’t think that demo actually watches Emmy’s and the advertisers of Emmy are even targeting such a demo

                            the fact is TW got an older audience (some of them who actually watch the Emmy’s) and they might not tune into TW on monday, so it looks like MTV is concerned about the 18-30+ demo not tuning in for episode 10 on Monday

                            so episode 9 got a low rating…kind of funny how TheBacklot tried to increase interest in it by posting a semi-nude pic of Deputy Parrish…reading some of the comments on that post, even gay’s weren’t interested in seeing it even if had a naked Parrish…goes to show people are tired of being lured in just cos of shirtless men

                            1. That last bit got me to thinking. I wonder to what extent viewers have been turned off by the objectification of the men on the show?

                               The appearances of the actors is a big focus on the show. Even at cons, reporters constantly ask silly questions like “who has the best abs.” They did a “Identify the Abs” game at one point.

                               The dreadful Wolf Watch does those hookup and shirtless tallies. Jill Wagner always has something to say about the way the men look during the show, even going on about wanting more scenes with 16 year old Sprayberry shirtless, which is just creepy because she’s like twice his age and he is underage. Meagan Tandy has recently come under fire as unprofessional for taking every oportunity to gloat about making out with Hoechlin.

                               Has TW become the Baywatch of the 21st century? Was it always and we just didn’t notice?

                   2. How can i explain this to you simply , and know i was not incorrect about why characters were killed of i was correct. It was therid decisions to leave anyway.

                      Ok so seaosn 5 did not get a shorter order of episodes.. it is 20 episodes it is more than season 4 and season 1 and 2.

                      Next tyler hoechlin stated in interview in comic con
                      With jr bourne next to him. That filming season 3 part a and part b in the time frame they did , was exhausting and draining on everyone and they just barely got it done. And mostly if affected the crew as the teen wolf production was basically running for 1 year non stop and it was too much.
                      Also JR bourne agreed 10 episodes format for a 20 episode season order was much better as he also said it was very difficult to get the episodes completed in time for season 3a and seaosn 3b.Which is why jeff davis asked for 12 episodes in season 4 to give everyone a break and he cited “i needed sleep”.So what you’re trying to tell me with your statement is that all three of these people are lying? when they answered the same question at different times? i mean come on now thats silly.

                      Jeff davis also said that , he would not go back to 24 episode format because it was to much they barely got it done and it was to draining on everyone , so he most likely is the one who suggested 20 episodes split into 10 episodes for part a and part b. I dont know how else to explain this to you. Go look at the interviews yourself , And you just think they are all lying?? i mean come on now you’re grabbing at thin air pulling nothing down and making your own stuff up atm.

                      Also if you check your information TW got 12m million dollars in tax credits from california , SO season 5 would nearly all be covered budget wise , and at little cost to MTV , or at least one part of it. So the network unwilling to invest money thing you’re saying actually just makes no sense , Cause it wouldn’t have cost them any money, They probably did want 24 episodes , jeff davis probably asked for 20.

                      And what ratings do the VMA`s usually get cause if they wanted to boost TW ratings they would have aired it after the VMA to retain the VMA viewers so they watch teen wolf like they do airing a show after the superbowl.SO it is most likely they trying to boost viewership of VMA but having teen wolf viewers to stick around after it has finished.

                      1. “The actors who died/left weren’t just killed of or written off they wanted to leave the show for other things and the writers were forced to write there characters off.” This is what you said, and it isn’t true. Sinqua (Boyd) didn’t know he was being killed until he got the script in which he died. Jill Wagner (Kate) didn’t know either. Both have said as much in interviews. Which makes your claim erroneous.

                         No, I am not saying that all three of those people are lying. They could be deflecting. It’s called spin. You see, when actors go out on interviews they are representing the show they act for and the company which produces that show. They are coached on how to answer some questions. There is an interview where Hoechlin talks about practicing answers before their first interviews during season one.

                         The primary concern for the actors is not to make the show, themselves, or the company behind it look bad. I am saying that if the show’s poor performance is the reason that they have cut the number of episodes for season five, then the actors and those associated with the show are not going to admit it because it makes for bad press. It’s demoralizing to the audience and they don’t want that. They didn’t lie, they told the truth, but it could have been a deflection.

                         MTV did order fewer episodes. It’s math. Season five is broken into two parts. Each part with ten, not twelve, episodes. Season three was divided and got 24. Every other season has consisted twelve episodes.

                         So, whether you look at season five as two seasons split in half or as a whole season, it is still fewer episodes. If it weren’t fewer episodes, there would have been no reason for reporters to ask about it in the first place and no reason for us to discuss it.

                         1. Oh. And you could be right about the VMA thing. It may be to boost the VMA ratings since TW is it’s highest rated show. On the other hand, it could be an attempt by MTV to pick up viewers for TW by snagging people who tune in early. Or it could be both reasons.

                            Either way, it’s odd and has never been done before. Given MTV’s recent scramble for a number boost to TW, one answer seems more likely than the other.

                            You may not care about the numbers loss, but it’s clear that MTV does.

                         2. Why are you so negative and always thinking there is something going on? You really read into things too much.

                            Again your stating facts from nothing????

                            Lol TW is still there #1 scripted show. Jeff davis.

                            In regards to season 4 having 24 episodes.

                            MTV wanted it not jeff davis.

                            Jeff davis didn’t want to do 24 episodes.

                            MTV wanted 24 episodes in season 43 jeff requested 12 episodes.

                            Now you’re gonna say its lies they all lying? LOL come on now man you can’t be serious really.

                            If you watch the interviews their answers were not rehearsed. Jeff davis the creator of the sam show said multiple times ” 24 episodes in the amount of time they had to shoot it was not much”

                            Your opinion does not overshadow that of the creator of the show and the ACTUAL facts of what is happening.

                            And what is stated by them. So im sorry i just completely disagree with you and think you are wrong and you make up stuff out of nothing.

                         3. Here you go again with “poor performance”

                            Season 4 is getting nearly the same ratings as season 1 and season2.

                            It is still their top scripted show.

                            So by in no means it is performing badly.

                            I think i’m leaving here now . You are too negative and what u say is mostly incorrect , and u make it up.

                            1. Hate to tell you this but season 4 is getting worse ratings than Season 1. Season 2 had by far the highest ratings, with season 3A falling behind it, and Season 3B sinking even deeper into the hole.

                               Why do you think PR is panicking so much?

                               Ratings have been incredibly sub-par and are falling below season 1 standards- which by the way, is partially their fault for airing a season, and then starting the next season 3 months later.

                            2. What you don’t seem to get, Mossen, is that Season 4 having the same ratings as S1 and S2 is actually a really, really bad thing, because the budget is significantly higher. So yeah, it IS performing badly.

46. Just want to drop by here and say, in regards to the thread above me, that Haley Webb also didn’t know that Jennifer was going to die right up until she got the script. Reed and Sharman may have wanted to move onto bigger and better things, but Jill, Haley, and Sinqua were not counting on getting written/killed off of the show. Sinqua was expecting Boyd’s story line to be explored more in depth. He said at one of the recent cons that he’d thought Boyd’s story was just starting.

    It doesn’t matter if Teen Wolf is still MTV’s top show, that’s not the point of the article. It’s asking why the ratings are lower than they were for season 3. Why did the ratings drop so much? It’s not just a steady decline either, it’s a straight drop. People are losing interest in Teen Wolf. It’s as simple as that. Obviously, the ratings are still enough to get TW renewed, but it’s still not the number of viewers MTV wants. Also, don’t underestimate the size of fandom, either. There are actually more people that are part of the fandom than you’d probably know, and that’s just a fact. I’m not saying fandom is the reason why the ratings have dropped so low, I’m just saying that the fandom itself is actually pretty large. The shipping and sterek fandom were brought up in the article because of how the PR acted in regards to them, which can also play a small part in why the ratings are lower because there are international fans who can probably watch the show through places like Hulu or on MTV’s website after it airs (both of which contribute to ratings) and a large chunk of those fans are going to be involved online and see how bad the PR treats certain fandoms.

    As for s5 probably being Teen Wolf’s last season, I think it’s a high possibility. Depends on when S5 takes place. Is the time frame going to be closer to s4, or is it going to be set during their senior year? If it’s set during their senior year, then I imagine s5 will be the last season because Davis has said a couple of times before that he’s not sure how he would write about the pack in college. Unless MTV bribe’s him to write a season 6.

47. I totally agree with this. I personally have nothing against the newbies, I just hate that they have taken center stage. I don’t mind them as long as the original four (Stiles, Scott, Lydia, and Derek) don’t get their screen time shafted in light of them, which unfortunately is what has happened. I was really excited about the prospect of Malia’s character, but, as many have already pointed out, she has been reduced to a love interest. I also truly believe that stalia is cute, but mostly because i think Dylan could make a relationship with a peanut look adorable. I ship Stiles with Derek or Lydia because i feel like Dylan and Tyler and Dylan and Holland both bring something to the table with their relationships. I don’t think Lydia and immediately think of Stiles; however, when i think Malia, Stiles is my first thought, which is truly unfortunate. Sterek and Stydia are two awesome characters mashed together,whereas I believe Stalia is just one awesome character put with a mediocre one (Malia). Also, Holland Roden’s acting has been a standout this season and the fact that she has barely any scenes is ridiculous. This season has thrown the fandom into an uproar, and i feel like the writer’s/creators don’t care at all. Obviously, all of this is just my opinion. I just hope the Teen Wolf team takes their head out of their asses and stop trying to screw with everything.

    1. Just want to say…. I don’t get Stalia and I don’t think I ever will. But Dylan with a peanut? Totally adorable. 🙂

48. Jeff, leave this fandom alone or they will leave this show ;< I'm not part of fandom anymore, because I'm not feeling welcome. Sad but true

49. I just wanted to add that the fact that TW got a fifth season had more to do with the $11.5 million tax break awarded to the show from the state of California more than the ratings did. The press started covering the new of the tax break on July 1 and the fourth season began airing on June 23. The only thing they have to do to get the money is to begin filming by the end of 2014, which made me wonder if Dylan O’Brien is going to have a lot of availability in the next few months. “The Maze Runner” opens September 19 and he’s already in England doing press for it; and he’ll be doing press until the movie has opened in all of the major worldwide markets so he could be busy doing that through the end of September/early October. I would think with three major holidays in November and December that’s not going to leave a lot of time for much to be shot, let alone for rehearsals so it wouldn’t surprise me if Stiles isn’t in the first couple of episodes which wouldn’t play into what appears to be MTV’s plan to lure in younger TMR fans who will be tuning in solely for O’Brien. It’ll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

50. I quit Teen Wolf at the end of s3. Things like the random make-out sessions and cheesy flips and jumps went from being the biggest issue I had about the show to the smallest. The plot was going nowhere, new characters were either being promoted to centre stage too fast or would disappear into oblivion, and ultimately I didn’t care enough about the show anymore. I think this article hit the nail on the head, especially with the controlling of the fandom. If you’re going to encourage them down certain routes (like Sterek) when the fandom is teeny tiny, then you have to deal with it when the fandom is huge, rather than just slam it and ignore it’s existence.

51. Found this article through a Tumblr post, and I’m confused about what some of them were saying. I wonder if they even read the article, or they got to the part where Sterek is mentioned and decided that the article was “only about Sterek.” Sterek is only brought up in this article because of the way PR has treated the ship and the shippers, and said treatment has been pretty shitty. (On that note, they really need to take a note from the Hannibal writers and PR and see how to deal with things like this.)

    I agree with the comment on Tumblr about there being some LGBT rep. There’s been some good representation, but nowhere near the amount that the writers and some of the actors like to pride themselves on. I really wish they would stop praising the show for the “great” gay representation the show has, because it leaves a lot to be desired. I think they’re doing a pretty good job at keeping Malia from being just a love interest, though. We know she’s got her own story apart from Stiles, and we sometimes see her with other characters. Her existence doesn’t revolve around him, and that’s pretty good. As for Braeden, I’m still iffy on their treatment of her. I was reading some of the other comments, and Romanochi sums it up perfectly. There’s nothing wrong with Braeden being involved with Derek. It doesn’t take away from her character, but we haven’t seen her apart from Derek except for one time, I think? Her story hasn’t been touched on, and we don’t know much about her. Mostly all of her scenes involve Derek in one way or another.

    Canon is kind of confusing now, too. Davis is trying to do too much at once, and he doesn’t have the space to do it, and it’s kind of not working out very well for him. I can understand why TPTB are worried about the ratings. From the pages I’ve seen and what not, it’s not looking to good for them. The show is still popular enough to get renewed for another season, but if the ratings continue to drop, I can’t imagine it’ll turn out too well.

52. I appreciated an interesting and unique analysis rather than simply bashing the show. Just to add thoughts to balance…

    One of the comments was, “Over the years the show has pushed its lead characters to the background and spent more time on new ones. The famous TV show Glee did such a thing and it horribly backfired. Fans are invested in the characters they are familiar with and they want to know more about them. Introducing new characters and forcing viewers to care for them doesn’t work.” To be fair… Degrassi is marketed towards a similar age demographic, and has been on since the dawn of time. Some might say that introduction is what keeps a show fresh and moving forward. And other shows, such as The Vampire Diaries, have made the mistake of clinging to a few protagonists falling into the same plot ruts and eventually squeeze the life out of the fandom until only die-hards remain.

    Also, LGBT representation is definitely a huge issue. I’m in full agreement. But there is something to be said for the fact that the twins received very similar levels of depth (or the problematic lack-thereof in both relationships) and face-time with love interests Danny and Lydia, and that Danny originally trail-blazed a bash to the stereotype. I think the major concern right now is that there was that positive impact to hit the ground running season 1, and then Danny’s involvement in the show dribbed down to random bare-bones (as the author stated) while a newly introduced LGBT character in season 4 is almost an exact replica of Danny as far as characterization.

    On another note, though I respect shippers and their ideas and admire their importance, I would strongly disagree shippers are the be-all-end-all. Supernatural is on it’s 10th season, rumored to be going further, and Destiel shippers are in the same boat with a similar dynamic as Sterek and yet still haven’t managed to turn the show in their favor – nor is the show slowing down. If anything, it’s increase in popularity has been recent and noteworthy. Back to TeenWolf, even Martinski shippers are outraged with the sudden introduction of Malia into Stiles’s dating scene after Aidan’s death and the closeness of their friendship left the situation primed for the writers to make good on that constant suggestion.

    As far as confusing canon and the audience, I think as the audience tends to be very intelligent, they are definitely keeping up with the mythology. As far as continuity errors in props and setting, almost all of that can be deflected to crew members on a large set with very specialized jobs. The show itself has more issues with writing on terms of convoluted timelines and a seeming lack of understanding of how high schools function (the “traffic” in the halls after hours or “romantic” moments happening in a teacher’s office during class), as well as misstep in terms of how teenagers act (dealing with death and danger by throwing parties or having unusually calm and proactive responses to relationships and violence), among other things.

    Just a thought.

    1. “I would strongly disagree shippers are the be-all-end-all.” Yes, you’re right, BUT. The problem is that in Supernatural, writers don’t ignore Destiel shippers and treat them like they’re freaks. Dean and Castiel still share a lot of scenes, the actors work amazing together and it shows. While in TW season 3 and 4, there were exactly 2 scenes which Stiles shared with Derek. Only one of them was one-on-one. Jeff ignores not only Sterek shippers but actors too. Tyler said multiple times that he wishes that there were more scenes with Dylan, because they work great together. I don’t demand to make Sterek canon, god no. I would be compeletely content if their interaction was kept on level of season 1 & 2. They don’t have to be in romantic relationship, just let them be in any relationship. It’s.. you know, it’s just nasty. I am Sterek shipper and I gave this fandom so much time and love and it came to that I get excited just because the’re in the same room. You can say what you want, but this is not normal and not fair to all of the others.

    2. Gotta agree with Martyna, there. I’m a huge Sterek and Destiel shipper, and while both ships are in the same boat so to speak, Dean and Cas’s relationship on screen hasn’t been affected the way Stiles and Derek’s relationship has. I’ve never really hoped for a romantic, canon relationship for Sterek, but there was definitely something there, like some kind of bond forming between the two, and because Davis or MTV or whoever is angry with the Sterek shippers, that something has been disregarded and thrown away. On Supernatural, Dean and Cas still have scenes together. It’s still made obvious just how much the two care for each other.

       The casual audience might be just as intelligent, but even they are beginning to become confused by canon. Quite a few of the people I’ve talked to have mentioned that the casual viewers they watch the show with are having trouble following the show. Even devoted members of fandom are confused, even after watching the episodes multiple times to see if they can understand it. The fandom may not be the be-all-end-all of the viewership and ratings, but as of this past Monday, the show has seen a 17% drop. Nearly a million people have stopped watching. Fandom makes up a small portion of that, I’m sure, but if there is that much of a drop in the casual audience, I think that’s pretty telling.

53. I completely agree with everything mentioned in this article. It almost feels as though it’s a different show than the one I’ve loved since 2011. Thanks for making this and I hope a few writers from the show sees this and attempt to correct the almost endless plot holes.

54. I agree! I care very little for the new characters, (Kira’s grown on me) and I think that despite the time gap between seasons 3b and 4, they would still be mourning Allison (;_;) Also, I HATE Stiles and Malia. Its just totally unrealistic. She killed her family, then lived as a feral child for however many years. A short while at the (frankly rubbish excuse for a mental facility) Eichen house would not resolve all the issues she would be having. And she certainly wouldn’t be able to function in society, let alone sustain a relationship. But, I still watch the show because I am emotionally attached to the remaining original characters *Allison (;_;)*

55. I think my major issue is the way the show marketed itself versus what it’s giving me. Especially in regards to LGBT stuff.

    For years, Jeff’s been saying, “maybe Stiles is bi! We’ve been hinting at it!” and then Dylan O’Brien comes out with an interview saying that one scene was just a tease.

    For me, I’m not a Sterek shipper, and I enjoy Stiles’s character, regardless of who he wants to bone. BUT, the level of queerbaiting got ridiculous. Stop claiming to be a LGBT friendly show when all you have is a barely there token gay character (and from what I’ve heard of Mason, he’s not that much different than poor Danny who has just vanished for no reason). As pathetic and horrible as Glee has gotten, they’ve earned their LGBT-friendliness card in terms of having significant characters be part of the LGBT community (and they did have all four of those letters! Granted, if you aren’t the G, your character is treated like shit, but they HAD them there).

    The other thing for me is that people keep leaving the show. I mean, I think it’ll be alright, and the only completely non-disposible people are Stiles and Scott. But I’ve heard Jackson leaving messed up some of their plans, Issac’s exit was awkward, they killed off Boyd because of drama with the girl playing Eric, Cora had to leave before they could give her an arc. . .I don’t know why all these people left, but the fact that they couldn’t hold onto people until their arcs were done I think also really messed up Teen Wolf. There’s been so many characters, I don’t even remember most of the people who aren’t in the core group.

56. Finally, someone says it. I’m still really upset that nobody made any mention after 3b, because 3b had such gross appropriation of both Japanese culture and Japanese-American history. 3b was so offensive that in all actuality, it should have knocked off all Asian-American viewers of the show.

    The only way I can watch TW and not get offended/angry anymore is to watch it thoroughly hammered so that I don’t know what’s going on. I’m completely upset at Jeff and the writers for just making Danny vanish into thin air, and I’m also upset at them for giving Jackson and Isaac a graceful exit, while all the other characters that have been important to the plot have all died (Erica, Boyd, Allison). Fandom is getting real tired of Jeff’s antics, and honestly, there’s no other quote that sums up his attitude better than this:

    (re: s3b on the oni [which, by the way, are not actually supernatural police under control of kitsune. Oni are straight-up demons, and they do whatever the heck they want.]) “I wanted supernatural ninjas in my show, and that’s how we developed the oni.” (Not exactly word for word, but that’s the general idea)

    There’s really no grosser example of Jeff’s mindset than this. He could have had literal supernatural ninjas (because ninja are mercenaries, okay? They’re not glorified warriors. In ancient Japan, ninjas were viewed as disgraceful because they were not loyal to anyone except for money) but instead, he maybe read two sentences on oni and then stole them for his purposes.

    The cast has become way too good for this show. I really am yearning for each of the cast members to find bigger and better projects and move on, because they are all worth so much more than this show that is running itself into the ground.

57. Just want to say THANK YOU. It’s all of this. That’s it. I am just sorry for the actors. Again thank you amazing post.

58. Honestly, I have cooled off considerably in season 4 for two reasons: I can’t stand the lead character and the treatment of Derek’s character. Jeff Davis is pushing the idea that Scott is a perfect person and a wonderful alpha down our throats through every avenue available, and it just isn’t true. You can tell fans what to think, but we aren’t stupid. We base judgement off of actions of the character, and Scott is unlikeable to me. He uses, lies, thinks he’s better than others, and whines about all the help he has been given. Derek is a character with so much potential for development, but Davis won’t do it because the limelight might move away from Scott. Instead, he weakens Derek and barely has him in the plot unless it’s to take off his shirt. Viewers should be invested in the characters, but Davis won’t give proper development to insure that investment. It pissed me off and I quit watching.

    1. Haven’t had any use for Scott since he forced Derek into biting Gerard. I have big issues with non-consensual activity. Derek is the most compelling character on the show, but he is left to wither on the vine in deference to Scott. Certainly, Scott as the central character should get the most development, but that doesn’t mean you ignore the others. Instead you bring them along with him.

       That Derek is more popular with many viewers should come as a shock to no one. Audiences like characters with whom they can identify. Flawed characters that reflect our real life day to day experiences wherein we make mistakes, learn from those mistakes and grow as people. That’s Derek.

       Scott is presented as flawless. Any action he commits that could be regarded as morally questionable (or corrupt) is excused as necessary, then summarily dismissed. The whole Gerard thing was a great opportunity for character growth. We should have seen a crisis of conscience in Scott. Should have seen him considering the ramifications of luring Derek into a scenario in which he would be forced against his will to bite Gerard Argent and turn him into not only a werewolf, but a werewolf connected to Derek through the pack bond. Gerard Argent. The father of the woman that destroyed his life. The man that twisted Kate’s mind and turned her into a cruel murderer who abused Derek’s emotions and manipulated him with sex in order to kill his family. Gerard Argent, a man filled with irrational hatred for Derek’s kind born of envy. It was a great opportunity for growth for both Derek and Scott. A moment for them to come together. Work together. He could have told Derek his plan and convinced him of it. Instead, Davis went for the intrigue. And rather than have Scott recognize his mistake, deal with the consequences of betraying Derek and bringing the two characters together a bit, the whole thing is dismissed and to hell with the effect on Derek.

       The whole werewolf-Jesus-true-alpha contrivance was/is an attempt to refocus the audience on Scott and it’s transparent. That the writers pulled this stunt made me dislike Scott that much more. You should see the means the writers concocted for Scott to make his first beta. It’s laughably silly and a transparent effort to maintain Scott’s Sainthood.

       Bottom line is that in Derek, Davis created a character that got away from him. The writer of his arc this season stated that Derek was never supposed to be so popular. Did you know that Davis shunted the writing for Derek’s arc this season off to another writer? So sad. I don’t know who that is on the screen this season, but it isn’t Derek.

       I don’t hate Scott, he just bores me. Derek, Stiles, Jackson, Lydia, Boyd, Erica, and Isaac were the characters I most wanted to know. That never happened, so I walked away.

       1. I wish you could hear the applause I just gave to your comment. Absolute perfection. I agree the focus needs to be on Scott, but his character lacks moral fiber and the other characters are left as backup singers qhen they have so much potential. Does Davis not understand why 3b was so popular? Lete clue you in Davis…it was because we were invested in Stiles. We watch what happens to Scott so that we can actually see what is happening to the characters we really care about. It isn’t rocket science.

59. For me personally.. I stopped watching because of character inconsistency (easily adding new characters and easily throwing away old characters, because of that there aren’t enough characters depth and characters development), plot holes, no major LGBT story arc (poor Danny) AFTER they implied that the show is LGBT friendly. After season 2 I’m getting more and more NOT invested in the show. I watched season 3 sparingly and probably wouldn’t watch season 4 and future seasons (if any).

    I tend to grow attached to shows that have solid core characters and then the writers build stories around them. For TW, at first I thought it would be about Scott’s pack and Hale pack, with some flairs of comedy-horror-thriller. How they build the pack, their ups and downs, would they be on opposite side or..?, now IDK who’s who anymore and worse… I don’t even care.

60. Stiles and Derek are the most loved characters. PERIOD.
    If you mess with them(=OOC) or make them less you are asking for it.
    Derek was less here, and Stiles was less so Malia could be more.
    And why would I want to know about Malia’s mother?! I want to know about Stiles’ mother or even Derek’s father. I don’t care about knowing more about the new ones if the old ones are not even developing as much as they should.
    And I wished Danny here in the place of the new ones because he deserves.

61. I watched the first few episodes of the season, and that’s it. HAven’t watched any more. I was hoping for a much larger role by the LGBT characters (for once) and that just sort of petered out into tokens here and there.

    IMO, one other big problem is that the show feels more and more like someone thought up a plot (with SO many holes), and then just plugged characters into it without actually taking the characters and their experiences into consideration. Trauma is never addressed because it doesn’t fit into the plot, growing relationships stop because they don’t fit into the plot (like Stiles-Derek as potential bros-in-arms), character development is reversed or spotty when it doesn’t fit.

    One great example, Stiles of Season 4 seems more like a caricature of himself, where he was before all the pain and angst, and without the ACTUAL angst he went through when possessed. His character was in a situation with a lot of emotional pain and growth, but suddenly, it’s as though he’s back to a kind of 2D comic relief status most of the time. Feels like his character has been made more shallow just to make the plot work, and his character is certainly not the only one I get this feeling from.

    So disappointing, when it had so much potential to grow, and instead seems to have stagnated.

62. Hey it’s not TW fault crystal reed wanted to leave (aka Allison) so he had to bring new ones
    And daniel Shurman left for the same reasons to pursue other things but they have done nothing with their careeres since so it was a waste.

63. I personally do not care about the lgbt thing because that’s not what the show is about. It never was. So the fact that people are whinning and complaining about that is absolutely stupid. Danny is a minor character. Of course he wasn’t going to be all that important. One of the twins died in the show from the storyline while the other who played danny’s boyfriend guess left the show to do other things. I also hate how people are constantly saying the show is unrealistic because of the stiles and malia relationship. “Oh malia killed her family. She shouldn’t have been healthy enough to go out into society and get a relationship ” blah blah blah. Like a bunch of assisians and werewolves and humans and demons battling in one small city surrounded by hundreds of innocent people is realistic.
    People just love to complain and throw baby tempertantrums. Why the hell would you not want to know about the new characters? They’re interesting and important to the story even though the old ones are in fact better. Teen wolf is amazing and entertaining in every way and i’m looking forward to upcoming seasos.

    1. Your tone is against the policies of our website. We invite civil discource, but calling people “babies” and “stupid” is against the rules. Please correct your behavior according to our policies: https://thegeekiary.com/policies

       -Admin Angel

    2. Although I agree with you – you should have deleted the whole third sentence it doesn’t help your argument. I disagree that people love to “throw baby temertantrums” no one does. But it is clear that people do like to complain – but everybody does.

    3. I don’t agree with you.

       a. Just because a show isn’t lgbt-centric, it doesn’t mean you should tokenize all lgbt characters. And that wasn’t even the point, Teen wolf was advertised as a lgbt friendly and maybe even lgbt-centric, luring people with false claims of accurate representation and well developed lgbt characters that defy stereotypes, yet the show completely failed in that regard. It’s false advertising.

       b. Even if a show is unrealistic, that doesn’t mean the writer’s can say “f*** it all” and get rid of all sensibility in regards to character-relationship development. Example: Dr. Who – it has good character development, the relationships develop at a realistic speed, and yet it’s about a man that travels the universe in a blue telephone booth. Fantasy/sci-fishows don’t have a free for all.

       Please take notethat I never once called you a “whiny baby”, even though I very well could considering your maturity is severely lacking.

       to all

       1. edit: fo

       2. edit: for some reason, my last comment was published incomplete. The ending was just an apology for being late to the party, and an apology for any grammar mistakes I may have made. I am on a tablet, and it’s not the easiest thing to type on.

64. I just … Agree with EVERYTHING. I loved this show in its first two seasons, ate it up, and I got super into the fandom. Watching season 3 made me question how a group of seemingly talented writers, editors, and producers could possibly be responsible for the content on air. It felt like bad fanfiction: plot holes that you were supposed to excuse because it was put out there by an ammature, a cloying response to comments or engagement with the fandom, new characters peppered without forethought but, hell, fanfic writers can do that! They’re allowed to get creative and weird and just have fun with the characters…because they aren’t managing millions of dollars worth of production budget! I felt as though season 3 episodes should have began with a disclaimer and “authors note: K guys, it’s gunna get tense here!!!! And it’s a CLIFFHANGER! Please read &rreview, NO TROLLS OR FLAMES K! Xoxo<3jeff".

    I never started season 4.

65. I agree. I thought this show was amazing and very intelligent the first few seasons, but now with the whole new character thing and the writers are trying to explain more about them that they’ve forgotten about the main characters. No one really cares about who Malia’s mom is or anything. We want stuff about the main characters. Take Stiles for example, he talks about his mom a lot and we know that she had an illness but could we get like some explanation about her, what she meant to Stiles, anything? We don’t even know Stiles real name! We were told in the first season THE FIRST SEASON that “Stiles” was a nickname, but we are coming up on the fifth season this June and we still don’t know his name. we don’t know anything about Derek’s father. Or what happened to Isaac. And after Sterek started getting bigger and bigger, Jeff made the screen time they had together smaller and smaller. it just sucks.

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